Episode 117: Four Reasons To Have a Four Day Work Week with Celeste Bell
There you are, on a Friday afternoon - hanging out by the pool and enjoying the fruits of a four day work week. You’ve managed to get everything done in the past 32 hours, and have an extra day to run errands, hang with family or dare we say, relax?! Sound like a pipe dream? It could just be your new reality.
Today we are chatting with special guest Celeste Bell, all about the four day work week. Listen in on this episode to see the benefits and the challenges that come with it, and then how to start trialing this within your organization!
On today’s episode, Erin and Celeste discuss:
· Work life balance – myth or not?
· The biggest desire for employees today – flexibility
· How to start trialing a four-day week within your organization
· Ways to approach leadership about implementing a four-day work week
More about Celeste Bell:
Celeste currently serves as EVP, Head of Human Resources at Deutsch NY, where she leads all HR activities and drives structural and strategic change management initiatives. Celeste has a wealth of experience in building equitable policies, procedures and practices that deliver and positively impact diverse groups of talent. Most of Celeste’s career experience was with Major League Baseball, where she was instrumental in the digital evolution of the organization. Prior to joining Deutsch, she handled talent acquisition at Publicis Media.
Celeste holds a Bachelor’s degree from the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, a Master’s degree in HR from New York University as well as a Certificate in HR Analytics from Cornell. She’s currently pursuing a PhD in Business at Virginia Tech and interested in pursuing research in the areas of future of work, leadership and diversity, equity and inclusion.
Show Links:
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Connect with Erin Diehl:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 117 Transcription
Erin (00:01):
Improve it! Peeps. Okay. Just get ready. Today's show is a ray of sunshine. Put your glasses on, put on some suntan lotion, because you are gonna feel all the goody goodness with today's guest. We have Celeste Bell on the show and here's how Celeste bell is improving it. Celeste currently serves as executive vice president and the head of human resources at Deutsch New York, where she leads all HR activities and drives structural and strategic change management initiatives. Celeste has a wealth of experience in building equitable policies, procedures, and practices that deliver and positively impact diverse groups of talent. Most of Celeste's career experiences was with the major league baseball, just, you know, just that small organization where she was instrumental in the digital evolution of the organization prior to joining Deutsch. She handled talent acquisition at Publicis media, which is also one of our clients.
Erin (01:00):
Celeste holds a bachelor's degree from the university of North Carolina at Greensboro, a master's degree in HR, from New York university, as well as a certificate in HR analytics from Cornell. And she is currently pursuing a PhD in business at Virginia tech and is interested in pursuing research in the areas of the future of work leadership, diversity, equity, and inclusion. Now, let me just say this on top of her many accolades, she is an amazing, amazing, talented human being. I'm not gonna spoil it. You just have to listen to today's show. It is truly one of the most interesting conversations that I've had. You can hear from her credentials, how fantastic she is at the work that she does. We are gonna talk about the four day work week. And I want you to know that neither her or I are currently doing a four day work week, but we've done some research and we have some opinions and we have some tangibles, you know, I like to give you tangibles for you to think about.
Erin (02:04):
So before we get started, just a quick housekeeping item, make sure if you haven't gotten the download that we have for you, it's a two page, actually three to four page now, PDF on how to hybrid hype your team. So if you are looking to engage your team in this hybrid workforce, whether you're onsite or offsite, working from home, working in the office, this gives you some really quick tangible tips and things you can do using improv of course, to hyper hype your team. And you can get that in the link in the show notes, get ready, cuz we're gonna talk about all the things, the benefits of the four day work week. We're gonna talk about four reasons to have a four day work week. The challenges that come with it and then how to start trialing this within your organization. I can't wait for you to meet the one and only Celeste Bell.
Erin (02:54):
Let's improve it right now. Are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers team building exercises and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out. Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of the same old dry, boring leadership books and ice breakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv edutainer, failfluencer, and professional zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. In this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building effective communication, networking, presentation, skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast.
Erin (04:31):
Oh my gosh. Celeste Bell! Welcome to the improve it! Podcast. Sometimes I'll sing in. Thanks so much for being here.
Celeste (04:42):
Of course. Thank you so much for having me.
Erin (04:47):
Our audience is gonna love you. You are like Ray of sunshine. You just have this beautiful, positive energy, which radiates. We've only met through the computer, but I love it. And it makes me feel happy and just warm. So let's get to know you a little bit. This is a fun thing we like to do called five facts. It is an activity that we do in our networking workshop and improve it. It's really easy and it just has a little cheer. It goes like this five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts. And then I want you to tell the improve it pees five things about Celeste that we could not find from your LinkedIn profile, from your resume. Just fun facts about you that we should know. All right. Are you ready?
Celeste (05:27):
Let's do it.
Erin (05:28):
All right, here we go. Five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts.
Celeste (05:33):
All right. Five facts. First fact I once ran a marathon on every continent of the world in a week, like full marathons every day of the week on a different continent over the first week.
Erin (05:49):
Are you serious right now? Okay. Keep going. We're coming back to that. Number two.
Celeste (05:54):
<Laugh> number two. Once upon a time I was a flight attendant. I was a flight attendant for four and a half years.
Erin (06:00):
Oh my God. Okay. Number three,
Celeste (06:02):
Number three. I have a dog. His name is Jesse. He is my best friend. He's amazing. I love him.
Erin (06:08):
Oh, we love you Jesse. Okay. Number four,
Celeste (06:10):
Number four. I am the only girl of five children. I have four brothers. That was crazy.
Erin (06:18):
<Laugh> that's insane. OK. And number five,
Celeste (06:21):
Favorite sports, basketball. I grew up playing basketball and it's, you know, the sport that I love the most,
Erin (06:28):
Which is so funny because you worked for the major league baseball for 10 years,
Celeste (06:32):
Right? <Laugh>
Erin (06:34):
Oh my God. I love this. Okay. We're gonna come back to all those things, but I really wanna just start with holy can. How did you run? Wait, so it was five marathons.
Celeste (06:45):
Oh no, no. It was actually eight marathons over the course of eight days, eight different countries,
Erin (06:52):
Eight days, sorry. Eight days, eight different countries. We, I have to know the countries. And how did you do this? How were you not jet lagged. And how did you make yourself like physically able to do that?
Celeste (07:03):
Yeah, so I ran with a group. The group was through marathon adventures. There was six of us and so we started the running started in New Zealand from New Zealand to Australia Australia to Singapore Singapore to chiro Egypt Egypt to Amsterdam Amsterdam to the United States. It was in long island in the United States Amsterdam, I mean the United States down to puns south America Chile. And then we ended in Antarctica that that was the last race in Antarctica.
Erin (07:43):
You're officially the coolest person I've ever met my entire life. This is insane saying,
Celeste (07:49):
What,
Erin (07:51):
What were you gonna say? I'm so sorry. I interrupted you. I just had to get that out there please go. Oh my God,
Celeste (07:57):
No. And, and recovery was interesting. Like recovery took different forms. So I run before running the continent site, run a marathon in every state of the United States. And I'd done back to back races, like five in a row, five different states, five different days you know, back to back. So I felt like, oh, if I can do five states, I can do eight countries. No problem. But it was different because with the states we would drive to the next state, you know, stay overnight. I have ice bath. Like, you know, I'd be fine, ready to go the next day, you know, you'd be sore the next day, but you know, perfectly fine still to run. But the difference with this was getting on a plane, you know, getting on plane, going to these different countries and like locking up while you're on the plane, not having ice baths, like some of these countries, like, you know, ice who like in Singapore, ice buckets, <laugh> white.
Celeste (08:52):
And so some of these other countries like Singapore and Egypt, like I couldn't take an ice bath, cuz one, we didn't have tub. Like we didn't have tubs in our hotel rooms, but there was no ice. Like you couldn't just go down the hall and get a, a, a bucket of ice. And so recovery was definitely a little different that time around, but you just ran through the soreness, you know, you line up the, the next, the next day, you know, you're gonna be sore for a little bit and you just run through it and then it eventually goes away or you're, you're just dumb and you don't realize it anymore.
Erin (09:25):
This is truly like, I feel like this show, we just took a turn. This is now about a pod. This is now a running podcast. This is literally insane. I will tell you, I ran one marathon in 2010. And it was like my first and probably last. I literally don't know how you did that. I don't know how you did it in the us. Like, I don't know how you did all the states let alone eight and eight days flying on a plane and then not fully recovering. I, what was like when you got back home, did you just do nothing for like, did you not walk for like two weeks? I would literally just lay there and be like, I've, I've done it all. I don't need to do anything.
Celeste (10:04):
Funny enough. I went right back to work. I, I went to work to work on Monday. Like I got back. I, I feel like I got back on a Saturday and I went back to work on a, on a Monday
Erin (10:16):
Celeste you're literally, I, I just admire you. This is a whole, like, I was already doing the research on this show and thinking, wow, I get to talk to this amazing human. And that is blowing my mind. I cannot. And also the fact that you got to go to these amazing places, Amsterdam, Egypt, New Zealand, Australia, like these are bucket list places. And what better way to Sam than to run them and to have a team of people. Are you still close with the other people? You said there were six of you.
Celeste (10:47):
Yeah, we stayed. We stayed in touch.
Erin (10:50):
That is crazy. Okay. I have to do a hard turn from this, but I am just <laugh> so, so happy. I asked that question. <Laugh> that is insane. You are the coolest, like that is. I've never met anybody who has ever done that. That is nuts. Oh my God. And how, wait, how many total marathons? I gotta know that. How many total have you run?
Celeste (11:16):
So I've 60 total
Erin (11:21):
That just cramp legs. Just cramp. I just got a cramp. I'm in awe of you. This is. And have you always been a runner or is that something you did?
Celeste (11:31):
You know? I really started running after college. Well, during college actually, because I didn't wanna get back. Like I was like, yeah. You know, freshman 15, 20, 25 is a very real thing.
Erin (11:44):
Yep. Had it, got the t-shirt yep. Yep. <Laugh> got that. Got the sized up. T-Shirt yep.
Celeste (11:50):
<Laugh> yep. So, so it really started in college. I played basketball up until then and you know, decided I've got to do something to keep myself together.
Erin (12:02):
You are in, well, you did it. And that is like, if that doesn't say as like who you are as a person, 67 marathons, that is some discipline. That is some self-controlled. That is like, that is mind over matter. That is mental awareness, health, all the things I just did a half over like from OC train from October, basically to February. Cause I haven't run in full in 10 years and I thought I was like, I was impressed with my, I was like, I did it. I ran a half again. And it, but it's so much discipline. Like you have to get up early, you have to run along ways before you do anything else to start your day. You also have a job, a very amazing job. So kudos to you. What a, what a way to start this show. And let me ask you this. Let's do this because I love to give intention to the show. We're talking about the four day work week here. I keep telling you, I keep wanna say four hour, but the four day work week. So tell me what is one word that you would like to get out of? Today's show what's an intention you wanna set for our audience?
Celeste (13:12):
The audience should lean into flexibility.
Erin (13:15):
Oh, I love that flexibility. Okay. Well I wanna start with just your career because you have had a fantastic career. It was so fun to research. You you've worked, you worked for major league baseball for 10 years plus before switching to pubis and now you work for Deut. So tell me, and when we started the show, you gave me a really awesome fact before we hit record about just some of the flexibility that Deut provides. But what is your, what would you say flexibility wise? Let's use that word. What would you say your kind of workload is right now? How many hours you work a week and, and where you're at currently with Deut.
Celeste (13:58):
Yeah. So I'd say, you know, workload for sure. Changes. Like that's the nature of the beast with human resources because you wear so many hats, you do so many things under that umbrella. So the day, you know, <laugh>, there's no regular day in human resources because they do change from day to day. I'd say I do try to work, you know, 40 to 45 hours. There was a period early in the year where you know, my, I was short staffed and so I was definitely putting in a lot more hours, you know, 50 to six B. But you know, now that I've, I've got my team, you know, fully staffed. I'd say I, I do average about 40 to 45 depending on the week.
Erin (14:44):
Totally. I feel like that's like pretty average for most people. Right, right. Like especially PO in an HR role and also pan like post are we post pandemic? I don't know. Coming. Yes.
Celeste (14:57):
Right
Erin (14:57):
At the end of the pandemic. I don't know. So what do you think about the phrase when you hear the phrase work life balance? What does that mean to you?
Celeste (15:07):
Work life balance is kind of a it's, it's kind of a myth, you know, I think that you can have both, but I think it's hard to have them at the same time. There's literally a book that I read. You know, really that, that speaks to that. You can have it all, but not at the same time. <Laugh>. Yeah. And, and so I really do think that it's a choosing of what's important, you know, to you day by day, week by week. There's a book that I read. One of my former coworkers suggested a book called the one thing. Oh. And it's like really changed my life. Ah because it really, it speaks to you selecting the thing that's most important for you to get done that day. And you, you shepherd all of your energy into that thing.
Celeste (16:01):
Cause at the end of the day, everything you do every day is not important. You know, you might have 50 emails to send out and a million things, a million little things to do, but at the end of the day, are they, are they the most important thing? And so that book is about like really centering on the things that are most important. And so that's my approach to work life. Again, there's not, I don't think it's possible to just have balance, you know, it's, it's choosing what's important to that day. And that day, that week
Erin (16:39):
Love that. What if my former C colleagues said her mom was a, she sort of had a different role growing up. Her mom was, you know, this is years ago was the primary breadwinner. And so her dad did a lot of the like at home work and, you know, helping the kids at home. And her mom said, you know, some days I get an, a plus at work and a C with family and some days I get a C at work and an a plus with family. So I love that concept of the one thing, because you just have to choose what, what is that day about? And it's almost like how we set an intention at the top of the show. I love that I'm gonna read that book. We'll put the book in the show notes too, for the audience so they can, they can get that as well.
Erin (17:23):
But I wanna ask you this, what have you noticed in your role at Deutsch and just being in HR for so many years, what has these past couple of years been like and what have you seen? Well we all know what they've been like, never repeat them again. It's like sixth grade. Don't wanna do it again. <Laugh> but what do you see coming out of this book? Great resignation, the great re reflection, the great regret, all of those things. What do you think is the theme or the biggest desire that employees have today?
Celeste (17:56):
I think the biggest desire is the desire for flexibility for employees to be able to design the work life that works best for them and to be trusted by their companies. You know, when I look back over the last two years, obviously it's been an awful last two years. These two years have just been a mental drain. I think for, for everyone across the board work life, personal life, it it's been hard. And I think that people are reprioritizing the things that are most important to them where work used to really be front and center, like all the time and your world revolved around work. I think that COVID making life just a, making it abundantly clear that life is very short and, and you should spend your time doing the things that you love with the people that you love. I think that people are really now leaning into, I need more, I need more of this, you know, work is important, but I also need to spend my days doing the things that I love and spending time with the people that I love. And so I think the flexibility to be able to do that is so important to every single employee, you know, whether they admit it or not, it's important to people.
Erin (19:20):
Oh my gosh, I love that so much. It really is. You can see it in so many different varieties of how people have moved. People like myself, included people have changed locations. They work from the place they wanna work now because they have that flexibility. I hear you on that. And you know, it has been really tough on so many levels, all the levels, but I feel like that is really the through line. And what employers really have to take note of is if you want a workforce that's engaged, you really have to lean into your intentions less, which is flexibility. So this brings me to the four day work week, which we know many companies globally are leaning into or at least trialing right now. So we've got companies, big names like Kickstarter and base camp, which I use base camp on a regular basis. I love base camp. They've leaned into this and they're still paying their employees the same as they would for a five day work week, but they are only working those eight hours, 32 hours in four days. So I know currently that you don't have a four, a four day work week model, but what would you say are some of the benefits that you see for companies leaning into this?
Celeste (20:38):
Yeah, I think that there's probably quite a few of them and just reading up on the companies that are offering it, you know, so far because, you know, Newsweek put out an article, I don't know, maybe three months ago about these 30, 31 companies that are leaning into it have done a trial, have, you know, some of them have, have made it a permanent fixture and they spoke to a greater, greater level of productivity, which again might be surprising to people cause they're working fewer days. But some of them spoke to higher levels of productivity. Again, the engagement piece that you just spoke to, the wellbeing, the mental and physical wellbeing of employees, them being able to spend more time doing the things that really bring them most, the most joy. And then retention. I think that like retention is one of those pieces that like, you know, turnover costs a lot. Yes. And, and everyone, you know, every company doesn't put a number on, on turnover, but they should. Because it, it, it really does add up to, to lots of dollars and lots of cents. And so I think if there's something that you can do to lean into, to keep those people in place that are amazing, and this is one of those things that, that could do that, then why not try it, you know?
Erin (22:15):
Exactly, exactly. I so hear you on this. And what's so interesting too, is just even going back to you and your, your interests running and doing this amazing things that you've done in your life when an employer sees or a leader sees what other people enjoy. And if you can incorporate the joy that they have in their outside world and allow that to be a part of the work that they're doing and be a part of their day to day. So, you know, you get a four day work week and now you get three days to run and do like a, and you know, a marathon in one of those days, day to workup like that, to me is the ultimate goal as a leader. I want that life, like, I want that life, right. And so part of my interest in this four day work week too, is that it's something that I've been really thinking about as a leader of my own team. And, and I, I just love those benefits. So we've, I just wanna repeat 'em one more time. You said great greater levels of productivity, engagement, mental, and physical wellbeing, and then retention, and really thinking about that high cost of turnover. So
Erin (23:24):
This goes along with that same questions, but can you think of four specific reasons and you did just give me four, is there anything else other than those four to have a four day work week? Why, if you're a leader listening today, should you just think about this as an opportunity for your team
Celeste (23:43):
With those four? You know, those are, those 'em are big four, but the thing is if you don't someone else will, and, and you stand the possibility of losing your greatest employees to those companies that will, you know, that, that have chosen to, to go down this path and support their employees in this way and, and give their employees the, the opportunity to, to work really hard, but to also play hard, you know, to have those three days, you know, what you just said about the running and the running a marathon, you know, on one of those days, literally when I was running around the world when I was running and, and doing these states, I would take off like a Friday to get to where I was going. And one of the greatest benefits, I think, best when I'm on the run. So I'll come back inspired and like with loads of ideas. And so it actually does help me to be a more productive employee, the, the running and its travel. Like, I think that anytime I'm going to a new place and I'm exposed to a new new culture and a, a new way of thinking, it inspires me. And so that, that running and being able to, to bring back like great ideas, you know, on Monday, it really is a benefit. And so you know, I think my biggest takeaway, I think the biggest takeaway is that if you don't somebody else will,
Erin (25:27):
That is it. I love it. It's so funny. You know, we, we use improv here at improve it. And it's really interesting the correlation of what you just said, because I remember early in my improv training, I was like 22 years old and I didn't have a ton of life experience. And then I sort of took a pause on improv for a few years. I went out and traveled. I did a ton of stuff. And then I came back and I was able to incorporate so much more into my scene work because I had lived and I had done the, I had seen different parts of the world. I had more just eye opening opportunities that allowed me to see things differently. So that allowed me to create new characters. And so obviously all of it spills into work. It spills into things like improv life experience gives us.
Erin (26:18):
And, and that's like you said it earlier, COVID reminded us that the life is so short, right? Like we need to do these things while we can. And why not give joy, if you can give your team anything, why not give them joy inside and outside of work? Like what a gift. Right. So I, Ugh, I love this. So let me ask you this on the flip side, I mean, we see these benefits, I hear them. What are some of the challenges that you see with the four day work week, if any, but what, what are,
Celeste (26:48):
I think one of the glaring challenges is probably around the companies that have, you know, support centers that have you know, you like, I, we use a applicant tracking system and their support like is on call. And I should be able to, to call them on a Friday at three o'clock in the afternoon, or Thursday morning at nine or whatever time. And so I think that companies that have, you know, times that they are supposed to be available to the outside public, that becomes a little more tricky where it looks like some companies have decided they're closing, you know, they're making Friday the day off, or they're making Monday the, you know, the, the day off that becomes a little more tricky where you've gotta rotate the schedules so that you, you, you are sharing the Fridays, you're sharing the Mondays, whatever, whatever day is decided to make sure that you have coverage. And so that's, that's the, the challenge that I see, like, just right off the bat, in terms of, of hiccups to the external public, you know, to your customer, that's really like the that's the biggest one.
Erin (28:10):
Yeah. I was thinking about it too. And I was, and exactly what you said, you can kind of divvy up like this team a takes Fridays off team B takes Mondays off, but maybe team B, maybe they wanna switch with somebody on team. You know, then it kinda gets a little convoluted, but I hear you. And I think it's a stance for, you know, some companies to say, I'm taking this Friday off, it's normally a five day work week. And it is a stance that they're like, this is what we believe in. And that's powerful too, but they're, I can see the logistical challenges, but, and I also think at that point, you have to outweigh the, the benefits versus the downside. So, and every company is different depending on your industry. So I know there's different logistics and details involved, but it really kind of doing the trial, which you've seen all these 31 companies on Newsweek. I'm they all trialed at first to iron out the kinks. And the good news is it, once you trial it, you better be ready to go for it.
Celeste (29:08):
I cannot
Erin (29:09):
See that going backwards. But you can iron it out and then takes it from there. You're like, okay, we tried this, it didn't work. Everybody leaves the company. They're like, Nope. <Laugh>. So I, I, I love it. So lemme ask you this Celeste, what would you do with a four day work weekend, a three day weekend? What would your ideal three day weekend be like,
Celeste (29:30):
Literally I, and I, and I honest, and I've given this some thought I've given this some thought even before we connected about a four day work week because my ultimate goal is to run a marathon on every single country. Like every country of the world, I'd literally be jet setting, you know, I'd, I'd be going not to a country every single weekend, but once a month I'm gonna be somewhere else. I'm gonna be in another country, running a marathon in a different country maybe twice a month, but not every single weekend. Yeah, but I would absolutely be checking those countries off.
Erin (30:08):
That is insane. Okay. I have just really two quick follow up questions. One, has this ever been done before? Has somebody done that? And is that in like the Guinness book of world records?
Celeste (30:18):
There's one person right now to date, who's run a marathon on every country of the world, his name's Nick butter, you know, so there's not a woman that's none yet. Okay. So
Erin (30:28):
Let's just come. She's
Celeste (30:30):
Coming.
Erin (30:32):
Oh my God. Yes. Who run the world? Girls <laugh> okay. Literally, literally. Okay. So let me ask you the second question about that. There's nothing to do with the four day work week. Where do you keep all your medals?
Celeste (30:46):
Oh gosh. That's a, that's a fail in a box. I don't have a, I don't have a display case. It's it's on my list of things to do, but I haven't gotten to like, so literally they're in a box and, and funny, like, I, I was using one as a, as a bookmark. So this is my last one from Rome. You know, in September, but I, I don't, I don't actually, I'm ashamed <laugh>
Erin (31:15):
You need a display case. You need those on display. Okay. If this episode is going to friends and family of Celeste, listen up, this is a great holiday idea. Birthday idea. Here it is. If you're wondering what to buy Celeste, a display case for her 67 marathon medals. And then once we get that three day work week going, there's gonna be like lot. There's gonna be like, I don't know, hundreds, so, oh my God. Okay. Well, those were just thoughts that I had about myself about, about you and literally the coolness that is Celeste. So let me ask this. So if somebody listening today, I mean, you have worked in some really amazing companies. You work in an amazing organization. You are a leader. If somebody listening today wanted to push this mess, this, this idea of a four day work week to their leadership, what would be an appropriate way to bring this to their attention and start a conversation?
Celeste (32:16):
I think this has to be a solution to something. So I think the, the first thing is to identify the problems, you know, to highlight the problems that exist and this as a possible solution to those problems and, and, and, and tying tying dollars where you can to those problems, so that it becomes a very real business problem. So that you know, your CFO understands that, like, this is a problem that affects our bottom line. Again, turnover is a huge problem that a lot of folks don't tie the numbers to, but it's a huge problem. And so really if you're able to, to gather the data and gather the numbers to the problems that exist and, and the dollars that you see walking out the door then I, I, I put that case together in that way.
Erin (33:15):
I love that and how, okay, this is very, very specific, but just getting really tangible here. So what's an example of a problem and just, you know, estimating a cost, what's an example of something that might, you might see not at your organization, but just organizations might see collectively.
Celeste (33:35):
Yeah. You know, so if people are leaving and I, I, I go back to retention, I go back to turnover a lot because it's, it literally it's, these are problems that you can solve. You can, you can always solve every single thing. But a lot of times the, the issues that people are walking out for there, there are solutions, you know, at your fingertips. And so let's say, you know, an organization they're losing people because they don't have like learning development options. They don't have career growth plans in place, simple problem to, to solve
Erin (34:15):
Yep.
Celeste (34:15):
Fix it by leaning into, and providing, you know, learn a learning platform and career development opportunities. And, and showing that you care about, you know, employees growth and their path, their career paths, same thing. Sometimes financially it's harder to correct if someone, if people are leaving, you know, because they all feel like they're underpaid as it relates to the market, that can be harder to solve that that's a longer term, probably have to do over multiple cycles in terms of compensation cycles. But a lot of times the, the, the problems are fixable, you know, the yeah. The things that people need, but it, it just starts with listening. You know, it starts with actually collecting their day to having conversations with folks, both inside, before they leave and with the folks that are leaving and then acting on what they're on, what they're speaking to
Erin (35:13):
That is it, I know those exit interviews are, are something powerful to understand. Why did you leave? Why, what could we have done better? And then I love that also talking with the people that currently are there. And I think this is so important. I think putting dollar signs, like you said, really show, especially, you know, you said talking to the COO, you know, your audience, you know, who you're talking to, you know, how they think in dollars. So present it to them in a way that makes sense. I really love that. Okay. This is a fun question. If you had a three day weekend to go anywhere in the world with anyone in the world, where, and who would it be with?
Celeste (35:57):
Okay. So where, you know, cause I wanna go to every country in the world, it's kind of like, okay, which 1:00 AM I going to pick? You know? Yeah, yeah. <Laugh> but you know, so I love Cape town. I ran marathon in Cape town before the, before the world closed. You know, before things shut down and it was a long weekend. I literally went out there on a Friday and I came back on a Monday, ran the marathon on a Sunday, but like squeezed a whole bunch of stuff in on that Saturday. And I wanna go back there because there's so much to see, like I did a hop on, hop off bus you know, on that, on that Saturday. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like there's, there's so much I, I want to still do. And so I wanna go back out there and I think that it would be a toss up and I I'm I'm, I'm not good at like following the rules. So like one person's heart, one choosing one person's heart. Like I think that a couple would be, you know, Michelle and Barack Obama, like, yes,
Erin (37:04):
Those
Celeste (37:04):
Are my two favorite people. Obama is like the coolest of the cool and he plays basketball. So like, I'd love to actually like get a game of basketball, you know, like actually play basketball with him while we're out there pit up a gym and, and, and play basketball while, while we're out there. So it would be with them, you know, because they are just amazing human beings in general. So it would be with the two of them
Erin (37:31):
That is okay, can I name dropped like two seconds? Of course, you know that, okay. So we've many years ago, 2017, we worked for the op we, we did workshops for the Obama foundation and we literally got to meet him. Michelle was not there. And there's a whole podcast episode on this I'll link to it in the show notes, Jenna, our director of client experience got to be a part of that day. And she actually got chosen by her peers to be interviewed. She thought by just a staff member. Oh no, it was him. She had like a full conversation with him and he was like, as beautiful as you can imagine in person just like so dapper and like debonair and just walked in a room and just like, he just looked so confident and he just was so kind and IM just Ugh, but that was truly, I only got a second if I had a full weekend, if I got to go to Cape town like that, let me say would be the most epic experience. And Michelle, let's not like play basketball with Barack and then like do some arm lifting with Michelle, right. You know, work
Celeste (38:43):
With work. Right. <Laugh>
Erin (38:46):
Oh my God. That is amazing. And I feel like this is gonna happen. So, okay. What, I know this isn't happening currently in your organization, but if you or somebody listening wanted to trial this, what's a great way to start. What's a good way to just, I mean, obviously start, but what's something what's a like, way to ease in that you could think of.
Celeste (39:06):
Yeah. I think that, you know, watching other companies do this, it looks like a lot of them have done three to six month trials. And so picking a timeframe that makes sense, you know, that where you can collect some real data. So maybe starting with three months extending to six, if that first three months has gone. Well, I think that collecting data is so important, you know identifying what's important. What are, what are the most important outcomes of this three month experiment this three month trial identifying what, what productivity means? Because a company, you know, an employee can say I'm more productive, but what, what does that really mean? Am I sending more emails or am I actually getting to greater outcomes? Am I, am I doing things that are pushing the, the organization forward? And so I think identifying what the measures are going to be like very clearly and then actually like collecting the data to see how you did and see how people are feeling. And and if it makes sense to continue on to your point, if you do it, you've gotta be ready to actually embrace it long term. Cause I think that you might have a, a full on employee revolt.
Erin (40:22):
Ugh. Yeah. They're like, Nope, Nope. This was too good. I know. And you know what nobody's gonna say no to a four day work week. I think most people would be so excited. It's such a great way to like, like you said, reduce turnover, but attract new, amazing talent right. At the same time. So I love this and I think you're right starting with three and for, you know, a, a great data piece is for most companies what's revenue. How's that looking? You know, there you go. Is it high? Is it higher than it was then let's keep going. So I love that. Okay. Final couple of questions here for you. Number one, we always say here and improve it. That the, it is that thing. It's your purpose. It's your light. It's what you give to the world. So what is your it,
Celeste (41:08):
My it, oh gosh, I'd say my it is listening. Like I'm, I am. My purpose is to help people become their very best selves, you know, in any capacity in where, in whatever situation. I may be in whether that's in work or in my personal life, my friends, my family, I want to help, you know, people around me be their very best selves, the very best version of themselves. And a lot of times it comes from listening and, and asking, asking really good questions that are going to pull out those things that are going to make them better. It's not me telling them how to, how to be better. The greatness is in the greatness is in all of us. You know, it resides in all of us. It takes those good questions. It takes listening and those good questions to pull it out. And so I'd say that that's, that's my it,
Erin (42:13):
I love that it, and I gotta tell you, man, when you said that, that is literally what we say here too, that we want people to become their best selves per professionally. And I love that people, you could tell Celeste that that is your, like you just attract that into your life. You have such a light inside of you and you are so joyful. So I am so grateful. We were able to have you here on the show and I could have had four days of this conversation if I'm being honest. <Laugh> so I wanna just thank you so much for your insight, for your wisdom, for your leadership and literally anybody who gets to work with Celeste, you are so lucky and now improve it. Pees. We are so lucky that we got to have this conversation today. So thank you so much Celeste for being here. And I look forward to continuing to hear how we can push four day work weeks into our organizations and the people we touch.
Celeste (43:11):
Love it. So,
Erin (43:27):
Okay. I feel like I just had a day in the sun. I am filled with energy. I hope you are too. What an amazing leader in human being so grateful we had Celest on the show. So as you know, I'd love to give you some homework to think about here's your homework as Celest set. And in our conversation, we talked about, if you are thinking about a four day work week with your organization, if you are starting to think about this and really want to trial it, number one, know that when you trial it, you need to have the expectation that it will probably go into motion. Number two, I want you to think about what Celeste said. And so if this is something that you wanna bring up to leadership, start identifying the problems that you are seeing within your organization. So whether it's productivity is low, engagement is low mental and physical wellbeing is low, cuz people are burnt out.
Erin (44:24):
You're seeing a high rate of retention, which are all the four reasons to have a four day work week, start identifying the problems and then identify the dollars to those specific problems. As Celeste mentioned, put some time and effort into this, talk with leadership about this. And if you, most of you listening are leaders start thinking about what it would make for, or what would make sense for your organization, for your team and why this is so important. So many companies are leaning into this. So many people are trialing it. I know a lot of small businesses that are actually really starting to implement this. And it is impacted the way that people show up to work. Because when people, as you know, which was one of the main tenants of improv feel seen and heard, they are yes. And did they show up? They are more productive and when productivity rises there goes the bottom line, there goes people's engagement.
Erin (45:26):
There goes your retention. It's staying, put, people are happy where they're at. So think about all of those things. And I really want you to put some time, effort and energy into thinking about how you can trial this within your team. And if it's something that you want to approach a leadership, if today's episode spoke to you and you want to just use this episode as a starting point for leadership, send it to somebody on your team or send it and pass it along to a friend or colleague who you know, could benefit from listening. As always, if you left us an iTunes review, I a lit a real person, a real human being me would jump for joy. So please do that as well as the team here who makes all of this content for you every single week, it means so much just by leaving a two second review on iTunes.
Erin (46:14):
Thank you so much for taking the time to invest in yourself today and know that I am just so proud to have the opportunity to do so. So as you know, keep failing, keep improving the world needs that special. It that only you can bring, I'll see you next week. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy you were along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to this show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I wanna leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.