Episode 108: SHHH – Don’t Tell HR: The Truth About Human Resources Professionals in Your Organization with Traci Chernoff
SHHH… We have a secret inside scoop on human resources and the perfect guest to spill all the beans. Have you ever been confused on the importance of human resources in your organization? If so, today’s episode is for you!
In today’s episode you’ll hear all about:
· Human Resources: what it means, and why it is the heartbeat of any organization
· How you can be an advocate for HR leaders within your own company
· How to best convey the importance of your work to leadership and the collective company
· How to allow the people who care in your organization to step forward and lead
More about Traci: Traci Chernoff is the Director of Employee Engagement at Legion Technologies and an experienced HR leader. Prior to joining Legion, Traci spent nearly a decade in key HR leadership roles for both Big-Box and Luxury retailers directly supporting retail management and hourly teams across North America; most recently, Traci worked as a Director of Human Resources for a Global Luxury Retailer. Traci is the Host and Creator of the podcast, “Bringing the Human back to Human Resources” where she destigmatizes HR by uniting employee demands and business needs while simultaneously challenging the perceptions and stigmas surrounding HR. LinkedIn, Instagram, Website, Podcast
Tune in, this is an episode filled with takeaways you won’t want to miss!
Show Links:
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Connect with Erin Diehl:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 108 Transcription
Erin (00:01):
Oh my goodness first and foremost, let me just say, you're listening to a, even more nasal twang version of my voice right now. I have almost lost it. And now it came back on the day that I was recording this show. So I was so happy about that, but it's from having a fantastic birthday weekend and just living my best life here in Charleston. And I am so thrilled that the sun is out it's summer. Things are happening and I've got a sunny and amazing guest on this show for you. Traci Chernoff is our guest on the improvement pod today, and I'm gonna leave how we met to the actual interview because it's really great. And I have just been a fan of hers ever since we first met and it, I just adore the work she does. I adore her as a human, she's the director of employee engagement at Legion technologies, and she is quite an experienced HR leader.
Erin (01:04):
Now, prior to joining Legion, Traci spent nearly a decade in key HR leadership roles for both big box and luxury retailers directly supporting retail management and hourly teams across north America. Now, most recently, Traci worked as an HR director of human resources for a global luxury retailer. Traci's the host and the creator of the podcast, bringing the human back to human resources where she destigmatizes HR by uniting employee demands and business needs while simultaneously challenging the perceptions and stigmas surrounding HR. This show is so good. So listen, if you are not an HR leader, you're just a people leader. There are so many takeaways for you in this episode. If you are an HR leader, oh my gosh, get a pen and paper ready. She drops some nuggets of wisdom. One of my favorite topics we talked about was why she quit her job in less than three months.
Erin (02:03):
Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, you'll hear her talk about what you should start and what you should stop doing as an HR leader or a people leader post pandemic. We're, I'm calling it post pandemic. We're still somewhat in it, but post these past two years. And then we're also gonna talk about why she is a HR journalist and fortune teller. So stay tuned for that, but this show really does break down what human resources does, how you can advocate for, be an advocate I should say, for HR leaders in your organization, and really communicate to leadership about the work you're doing. So stick around. It's a great episode. And here's my only ask from today. If today gave you some laughter levity and positivity after the show, I would love for you to leave a review or send this episode to a friend that is what we need more laughter levity positivity in this world.
Erin (03:07):
And you're gonna see that come through in this interview with Traci's intention. You'll hear about that in just a moment. Let me stop blabbin' my gums. Let's get to Traci. Sure enough on the improve it! Podcast. Are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new, innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers, team building exercises and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out. Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of the same old, dry, boring leadership books and ice breakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv, entertainer, failfluencer and professional Zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. In this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development, team building, effective communication, networking, presentation skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast.
Erin (04:55):
And she's here. She's finally here. She's here today on the improve it! Podcast. Traci, turn up, welcome to the show.
Traci (05:07):
Thank you!
Erin (05:09):
So happy to have you. We met through the podcasting airwaves and we're now podcasting besties, and I love it.
Traci (05:20):
I love it. And I know that no one can see this, but I was literally like raising the roof in that intro. So thanks for having me.
Erin (05:28):
You're welcome. You're welcome. And I was kind of like, but I was doing a bob with you. It was, we were feeling this, this random music that I decided to play for us through my voice, which by the way, sounds, sounds horrible right now, but we're doing it. We're doing it. She's drinking tea. She's drinking honey. She's drinking all the things. All we can do all we can do well. Okay. I would love to introduce you to our audience with a fun little game. Are you ready for this?
Traci (05:53):
Oh my gosh. I'm so ready.
Erin (05:55):
Okay. It's called five facts and it's super silly and I'm gonna do a little Diddy. Okay. It's a little Diddy. And then after I do the little Diddy, I just want you to give us five facts about Traci, that we could not find on your bio, on your resume, on your LinkedIn profile. Tell us just fun things. Here we go. I'll do the little Diddy. It goes like this five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts five facts. Tell us five facts, Trace.
Traci (06:21):
Okay. I was a drum captain like in the marching band and like percussion. It was a very serious, very competitive back in high school
Erin (06:29):
Stop. Okay. <laugh> two.
Traci (06:31):
I am a ginormous Beyonce fan biggest fan. Love her. Love her. I hope I can meet her one day.
Erin (06:37):
That's why we're kindred spirits. Okay. Three,
Traci (06:39):
Three. I played softball my entire life. I was a catcher and I loved it and I, I love baseball. I love sports. I'm the sports lover in the household. Like my husband, you know, not really into it, but I carry that torch.
Erin (06:52):
Oh my God. Okay. Four,
Traci (06:54):
Four. I'm five one. Most people think I'm super tall because I have a very loud personality. I'm pretty sure.
Erin (07:03):
OK. And five,
Traci (07:04):
Five you know, I've always wanted to go and travel to outer space and I don't think anyone knows that.
Erin (07:11):
Okay. Elon are you listening? Are you listening Elon? And also we just got the exclusive I just wanna share that we got the exclusive, that, that was that's news to us. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> first of all, I did not. I have so many questions. I did not know you were five one because we've never met in real life. And then number two, I kind of figured you were a Beyonce fan like that. I feel like we might have talked about this on your show, which is how we, we first met. And then this drumming thing I did what
Traci (07:40):
I know. I don't think anyone knows that. I, I know I, you know, I've lived a few lifetimes. Yeah. I, I started playing percussion and like, you know, really the drums in like third grade, it was one of those things where you go to the cafeteria in elementary school, you figure out what instrument you wanna play, because everyone has to play an instrument, whether you're talented or not. And it's the most horrible sound in this cafeteria, in the elementary school. Thank you. New Jersey. I, I loved growing up there, but that was it was, it was loud. Everyone was playing a lot of instruments. Wow. So then I decided I was going to pick up the drums and I stuck with it. And in high school I was in the marching band, which was very competitive. It wasn't like one of those you're just playing in the bleachers. Like we competed against other marching bands across New Jersey and other states. And and then I in the winters, like, and I did this all like while playing softball pretty much year round too. But in the winters I was in winter percussion, which was like an indoor competitive percussion drum line, basically. So yeah, it was fun. It was awesome. I loved it.
Erin (08:44):
Okay. This is why I love this game because I would never have known that fact ever. And now I'm just gonna send you like pictures of drum lines and just be like, I'm gonna send you every drum line meme I can find on Instagram. This is amazing. I did not. Okay. See, and now, and I didn't know, you played softball, Traci. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>, this is why these games, we need them and they need us. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Traci (09:06):
I like this a lot. I like this game.
Erin (09:07):
Okay. Well, before we dive in, I wanna just set an intention for today's show. If you had one word that you want to achieve or get out of this show today, what would it be?
Traci (09:20):
A lot of laughs.
Erin (09:21):
Oh, I love it. And it's a hyphenated word. A lot of laughs. And I think we'll probably, sorry, not one word. No, it's hyphenated. It's hyphenated. That's hyphenated. I like that. Well, let me ask you this too. So we met on your show, bringing the human back to HR and, or bringing the human back to human resources. I should say the full words. And you destigmatize HR by uniting employee demands and business needs while simultaneously challenging the perceptions and stigmas surrounding HR. We have a ton of listeners who are in human resources, who are people leaders. What do you find the most fascinating about your job in HR?
Traci (10:08):
Oh my gosh. I think what I find most fascinating is that when you build relationships, you're really trusted to just run with it because so many people do not wanna do HR and they do not even wanna have to manage the people piece. And so when you really establish a strong relationship, you get like full trust. And I remember starting my career after college and I was like, who trusted me with all this? <Laugh> why was I trusted with all of this? But I was so glad that I was because one I'm trustworthy. You can trust me. Yes. but two, it was, it really allowed me. And I think also because I love autonomy, like it allowed me to just kind of take it and run with it. So that is always really interesting to me.
Erin (10:53):
So I, okay. Let me ask you this. I think HR leaders are awesome because that's who we serve, right. That that's who improve it. That is most of our clients are L and D. What do you think is the reason most people don't wanna go into HR just because of the management piece?
Traci (11:12):
It's a lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, everything is a lot of work. Like whether you're in accounting or HR, it's a lot of work always. But I think when the work is involving people who are super unpredictable, very complex, you can't apply the same methodology to each problem and each person, it really requires someone with the stamina. And the, the appreciation of those points to step into the role. And I think it's an amazing career. I wouldn't be who I am today without my career at the same time, not everyone is cut out for it. And I think sometimes there's this, this understanding, this is where the stigmas come in, that HR doesn't do a lot, that they stand in the way of progress, that they're a cost center. And that's totally what I'm working against because that's not true. And when you have the, the right people in place, your people operations team, your HR team, they're going to escalate, elevate and just completely change and transform an organization. So I, I think that what really, when people look at the career, they're first seeing the stigmas and then they're seeing the complexity, which is a lot of work. And unless you appreciate that again, you're really not going to enjoy it. And you're not going to enjoy it for very long.
Erin (12:31):
Yeah. So interesting. You say that because, so my husband is in learning and development and he's a talent, talent dev, right. Which used to fall in his old organization, under HR, but now is in, it's under an operational role right in the operations department. So I look at him and I'm like, and literally he's the most empathetic person. He, he can solve a problem so quickly, he'll he won't take emotions into play. He'll just figure out the solution. And he's so good at it because that's what he does all day long. Is he just right. Solves problem after problem for people. Yeah. Where, you know, I lead a team, but sometimes I'm just like another one, you know, like it's, it's, so it's a skill. And I think it is such an amazing thing that ha we have people in HR roles who love this work, who find it fulfilling, who are good at it. Like tri say like John Diehl will give you some love on this show. Now let me ask you this too. What would you say is the most for you? The most challenging quality of being an HR leader?
Traci (13:44):
Like, as I am in my career, what challenges me the most, or is the hardest to deal with?
Erin (13:49):
Yeah. What would you say for you? And it may not be, you know, not blanket for everybody, but for Tracy, what would it be?
Traci (13:56):
Yeah, I think the hardest is, I guess it's twofold. One it's having to convince leaders throughout the business why the people function matters. Yeah. Because I should, you should never have to convince someone that is in a business why people matter, because the only reason the business exists is because of the people. Running the human back to human resources. Hello? Yep. Amen right. Amen.
Erin (14:18):
Amen.
Traci (14:20):
And then just more tact, more tactfully. And technically I think the, the biggest challenge has always been, you know, when something there has, there's a decision that you can't really control, that impacts people's employment. That just always stinks. You know? And, and I've of course, I mean, it's part of the job. Sometimes you have to make cuts. Sometimes you have to change around an organization. Sometimes people just aren't in the right roles and there isn't another role for them, or maybe they're not performing well. And even though that's in their control, everyone can control their performance. When you are sometimes the deliverer of bad news, it's hard to, you know, that adds to the stigmas. Right. But I, I think it's always challenging and I think it always should be challenging because we should always see people as human beings. Yep. And we, it, it should never be so easy to end someone's employment.
Erin (15:12):
Hey, ma'am I'm gonna ask our editor, Mike, right now let's put in some church, Mer, you know, that's, that's the yes. I agree wholeheartedly. That is why people like you are in these roles because you see the human, you see the person, not the robot doing the task, doing the work mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I wanna, I wanna kinda flip this a little bit because I know some trace, they stole Reese, cuz I listen to your show and I want you to tell our audience, you quit your job less than three months, not this current one, but a different one. Can you tell us why?
Traci (15:54):
Yes, I would love to. So yeah, this is an important point that I am currently employed by an amazing company that I have. There's a whole background story to that. So definitely check out those episodes. But yes, I quit my job, which I, you know, I had a job where I was there for almost five years fashion company. And I left for what I thought was this amazing new opportunity, more pay, different benefits, luxurious. Like I thought I was getting everything and the sun and that role was the same role that I was in. It was a director of HR role. It was the same role I was, I was in prior to accepting that new job. Now I'm a director of employee engagement at a tech company. So I made a total shift. But in that last retail job where, where I left after three, less than three months, I can tell you that everything that I thought it was going to be, it wasn't fr and, and there were red flags that I missed.
Traci (16:54):
And I talk about this on, on that one podcast episode. But really the, the key points here are that the job was completely different than as described. Like it didn't even, you know, actually one of the red flags that I missed and this is a bad one is that I never saw a job description. Like what was I thinking? But never saw a job description. I'm sure if I did, then I would've realized that the job was totally not aligned with what they said it would be. The second is that I was really struggling with leadership in the, in a way that like you don't put up with like, I'll just leave it at that. It was one of those situations where I, it was not the right fit and I needed, I knew I was not sticking around to find out what the end result was going to be.
Traci (17:41):
And it wasn't worth it for me in that moment to be the one to fix it because I didn't that wasn't the job that I wanted. I wanted to come in and, you know, elevate what already existed. I've done the, you know, fixing things for basically my entire career. And I wanted to really expand on my experience by taking what already existed. Of course there are always going to be challenges. You're always going to fix problems and solve problems, but I, I definitely wanted a, a less of a mission critical experience, for example. And then the third thing was that the, the actual expectations of work like travel, for example, the, the way in which I was expected to work, even going into the office, it was never shared with me. And even when I asked questions, so it was just all kind of this bubble of, I don't wanna say bubble of lies, but it was a bit of a bubble of lies.
Traci (18:36):
And, you know, in that moment, I, and I talk about this on the episode too, that I was not sure whether I should quit or if I should just stick it out because I'm so used to just kind of like persevering putting, you know, putting in the work and just like getting it done. But again, especially with the leadership challenge, that was something I, I could not reason. But the reality is, is that I was petrified of having such a long standing tenure, one job. I was in almost four years, one job I was in almost five years now here almost three months. I'm like, I'm gonna quit and I'm gonna look crazy. But I realized, and I didn't leave until I had something lined up, which is my current role. Love it, love it, love it. I realized that, you know, at some level I needed to figure I needed to practice what I preached, you know, having a podcast, I talk a lot about, you know, what you should stand for and what you, you know, what is appropriate to experience versus the impact you can have.
Traci (19:35):
And I was like, who would I be if I stuck out this job in a terrible situation and I'm really not exaggerating at all. And so that was kind of my, my determining factor was like, I have all these listeners that are relying on me to be authentic about my experiences. And I would not be authentic if I stayed in this job. And I knew at least that I needed to have something else lined up because, you know, girls gotta pay some bills. Yeah. but yeah, that was, that was the situation. And I'm so grateful for my current employer who I had, I've known for mul a number of years because I actually use them as a customer. Like we're a tech software company. So we use their software and my previous job before the previous job. And so I knew what I was walking. I knew that they were super authentic. I knew exactly what I was going to get. And that they really appreciated me as a, as a human being. And so that was a, that's a long-winded way of saying, you know, I, the listeners reminded me of who I am, what I stand for and what I wanted to be a part of.
Erin (20:41):
Oh, okay. Well, if you're listening to this show as an audience member from Traci's show, you're welcome because she gave you and then improve it fam you're welcome because we just got some awesome nuggets of wisdom. And I think it's so important for anybody listening to, we talk a lot about that on this show, be authentic, be real show up as you want be the leader that you wanna be led by, and you were not feeling like the leader that you were being, or the leadership I should say that you were being led by, was making you feel seen and heard and valued, and you needed to go to a place where they loved all things Traci. And I'm so happy you did. I'm so happy you did. And I see you on LinkedIn all the time. I love the posts. I can tell that you are passionate about where you're at. Now. I can tell that you are just crushing it and it's, I'm so glad you shared that sort of here and with your audience, because it really does hold true. People are our biggest asset. And if we don't treat people as human beings, then we are not gonna have the human beings to help with the work that we need to do.
Traci (21:52):
Exactly. Exactly. And I thank you for asking that question too, because when I released that episode, I was overwhelmed with messages of people saying like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad you talked about this. I'm in the same position. I've been thinking about this for a while. And actually this is like a, a trend. I think I actually, I have it here. The monthly quit rate in February of this year was 2.9%. And of that, of those people who left many people are regretting their decisions. Yeah. And 4.5% of all new hires went back to their original companies.
Erin (22:30):
Isn't that crazy? The great regret, right? That's what they're calling it.
Traci (22:33):
Oh, had deep regret,
Erin (22:35):
The deep regret, the deep regret, but look at you now. I mean, you FA you got you, you're kind of a step away from the old company. You know what I mean? Cuz you worked with them before, you know totally.
Traci (22:46):
Yes. I know. I, you know, I had to say, when I think about this journey, I'm grateful for that terrible experience where I spent three months like contemplating my, why I made a poor decision and missed red flags. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> I was, and I talk about this, that I actually thought that I was no longer a good decision maker because I was ineffective at reading the red flags and really listening and, and critically thinking about the, the situation during the interviews and the job, for example. But I would not be in the role I'm in today if it weren't for that. So I have a lot of gratitude for that, that step in the, a side step, I guess I should say, because it it's, I think everything, you know, just compounds to get you to where you are, are going, you know, it all matters.
Erin (23:36):
I agree with that. Oh well, and I'm glad that you're able to look at it with that lens of gratitude because that is truly, I mean, perspective is everything, right? You could be still beating yourself up about this and you've landed in this amazing place and it's not even something to beat yourself up about. I think you should applaud yourself for feeling like, okay, my gut is, yeah. Give, give yourself that pat. It's like, you know, your gut, your intuition is always right. I'm super woowoo. I believe in that. And you were just feeling all of these vibes, your way that are contradictory to your values and to who you are as an HR practitioner. And I think it sounds like the place that you're at now really values you as an HR leader, they see you in this role, they need you, they want you, they see that this is something that is the heartbeat of their organization. So let me ask you this. If a listener listening today is an HR leader and they are having issues with leadership, seeing value in their work. Do you have any suggestions on things or action items they could do to showcase the value of their role?
Traci (24:51):
Yes. And the first thing that I'll say is maybe more of a question, are you keeping your audience in mind? Are you presenting the work you're doing with the underlying understanding of what that person cares about? Because you might care. This is like, you know, just like when you present, right? Like you might care about the way that you manage employee relations issues, but that person re you know, your leader, the person receiving and, and evaluating your performance and the work you're doing might actually just value the data. They might not wanna know about the details. And so you could be speaking, you know, talking about the same thing, but speaking different languages and you might just not be getting the, the information and the reason why there's value in your work across in a way that matters to that person. And so I, I actually really believe that a whole lot of the value that is placed on us from organizations is based on how they're receiving the information we're giving them.
Traci (25:53):
And so keeping your audiences in mind is one of the best pieces of advice I can give you. And if you've done that, and this is actually a just quickly setback, this is all about understanding what motivates people. If someone, you know, like if you're presenting to a CEO, they're motivated by money, ROI, hopefully people as well, understanding, you know, per dollar amounts, percentages, data, like that's just inherently part of being a business owner. And so, you know, if you are keeping your audience in mind and understanding what motivates them, then you're going to be able to frame your message differently. And you might not have to do anything differently about the work you're doing, but rather just the way that you're presenting it, if the value or the lack of value on your work is related to the work you're doing, then I think the first step is to ask very specific questions. How can I add more value to the work that I'm doing? What would you like to see me do differently? What would you like to see me continue to do? Because I think sometimes the challenge there, the reason why there's a gap is because we're not asking the right questions. And if we ask the right questions, then hopefully we'll get the answers that we need. And it's so much less of a gap most often than we realize.
Erin (27:08):
I love it. And you know, what's funny, speaking of knowing your audience, I didn't even plan to ask this question. I'm gonna be honest. I was just like, Hmm, that was what they needed to hear. Cause we have, I have an avatar for you, improve it, fam your name is Kimel. And I was like, Kimel you need to hear this right now. <Laugh>, it's the whole thing. That's the whole thing. But I'm like, you know, if I'm them and I'm listening, that's what I would wanna know, because that is the most frustrating thing about, I think a lot of positions when your role you're hired into a role for a reason. And it's like, why did you put me here? If you don't see value in this work? Right. So I think that's so important flipping the way that you have those conversations, thinking about the person.
Erin (27:55):
I love that mentality to the analytical, you know, you could be speaking to a CEO and you need some analytics. You need to think about the left brain, but you could also be talking to your C H R O and be like, I need more, you know, soft approach. I need a different approach and a more emotional based approach than the analytical side. I love that. And I think it makes a lot of sense. And if anybody listening here today is feeling frustrated and out, take he, take ye, write it down, write it down.
Traci (28:26):
You're doing valuable work. There's no question that your work is adding value. You just have to figure out how you represent that value because actually HR people are often working with things that feel less quantitative yes. And feel more qualitative. And you have to be able to have a business case and present the work that you're doing in a way that feels quantitative as well, because that matters. And this is, you know, I mentioned that so often the stigma is that HR is a cost center and it's not, it, it is a, a revenue driver. We are people, people, right? And, and people drive businesses. So intrinsically we're driving margins and profits. So if you can frame the work you're doing through a return on investment, through a dollar amount for the people that want to know that information, you're, you are placing value on the work that already is valuable.
Erin (29:21):
Ugh. And there's so many ways to do that. That would be like a whole other podcast. Tracy, we're gonna have you back on the show. How can you do, how can you show the ROI of HR? The ROI of HR, Traci.
Traci (29:34):
I'm ready to talk about it. I'm ready. Okay.
Erin (29:35):
Okay. Wait. Okay. And it's gonna be a full show. Cause I feel like I don't even have enough time to get into those analytics, but I feel like that is, if you want that as an episode, send us a message. Let us know. We will have Tracy back because ire her so many ways. Let me ask you, this is a fun one. If you weren't an HR practitioner, an HR leader, what would you be doing?
Traci (29:57):
Oh gosh. Do you know I have no idea. I used to think I wanted to go into politics that dream like left me fast because I realized, you know, what you, what it all is. And I was like, I want my life to be kind of fun too.
Erin (30:13):
Yes. yes.
Traci (30:14):
And then I thought about being a teacher and I was like, maybe, but is it the same thing every year? Then I thought about being a journalist. Maybe that would be it.
Erin (30:23):
Well, you kinda are a journalist with your show.
Traci (30:28):
Yeah, it's true. I am document. And actually I've made a lot of predictions. I have to say some of them have come true. Some of them happened like, like I predicted like unions, for example, the union bubble. Yeah. I, I said that we are going to see more unionizing and this was before, I don't know. Maybe it was like in response to the initial Starbucks union, you know moment in Buffalo, New York. But I said on that episode that we're going to see a lot more of that. And we are seeing a lot more of that. So, I mean, maybe that's like, not much of a prediction because like anyone could say like, oh, there's one union in Starbucks and everyone, but I don't know. I see that as a prediction that has come true.
Erin (31:10):
So maybe you're a fortune teller slash medium, a journalist journalist, a journalist. I love this. Yeah.
Traci (31:17):
Documenting it. Yeah.
Erin (31:19):
But you are doing, you are doing the work, you are already doing it. So it's like, you already have what you didn't know that you wanted, you know? Yeah.
Traci (31:26):
That's true. I, I, yeah, I, I, it's all there. I'm, I'm an HR journalist just, you know.
Erin (31:32):
There it is. Put that on a LinkedIn profile. Will you? Okay. I like that. <Laugh> I like that future predictor, HR journalist. I mean, we got it all.
Traci (31:41):
I I'll put the magic gate ball or, you know, the, the fortune teller thing. I'll be like, let me tell you all about the future. Not only for you, but for the world or the, by the way, through your, in HR. Yeah.
Erin (31:53):
Yeah. By the way, listen to the show. Also her podcast is so good. So if go check that out. If you're listening to this show, you will love Traci's show. Let me ask you this. Now this is kind of in line with what we were just saying, but we've had the craziest two years. You've had crazy two years. You've had a lot of transitions professionally, but also you started the show about two years ago. Is that right? Yeah. A year ago.
Traci (32:17):
Yeah. November, 2020.
Erin (32:18):
Okay. And so let me ask you this as a person in your role, we are now gonna call you HR journalist slash fortuneteller leader. What is one thing you would tell other leaders to stop doing? And then one thing you would tell them to start doing?
Traci (32:40):
Okay. I would say stop going with the flow on things that you are super opinionated about. Ooh. So challenge the status quo. It's almost a stop and start like challenge the status quo. It's okay to, you know, have a perspective that's different, that challenges what already exists. And I think that when you stop just going with it, you actually provide a lot of progress for the organization. Even just to question it, maybe it's not going to change, but you can question what exists. And then I would say start having more meaningful conversations and remembering that relationships are everything. I feel like we go through life talking about how it's all about who, you know, and you have to have really good relationships and you have to treat people well, but I don't know that I always see people actually practicing that. And you know, when, when I look back on my career and I talk about this, I think I actually talked about this in my very first episode of the podcast too, that I would not be where I am today.
Traci (33:41):
If it weren't for all of the people that I've met and supported myself or who've supported me along the way. And it's all thanks to those relationships that are authentic, that are trusting, that that are meaningful. That I really credit with a, a major part of the, the reason why I think what I am, where I am today. And it might sound like something that people are probably already doing. I don't know that everyone's putting a whole lot of emphasis on meaningful and authentic relationships. I think sometimes there are one way moments there where it's like, I'm just gonna connect with someone on LinkedIn because they have really good connections, but I'm never gonna do anything with it. Those are, those are, you know, you're, you're not spending any time that's valuable or productive to you. So, or to the other person. So focus on the people that, you know, invest in those relationships, give them something, right. Like, don't think that they're just going to give you so really start having more meaningful and authentic conversations that they're in promote more authentic relationships that are trusting.
Erin (34:48):
Oh, okay. Traci, first and foremost. Yes. And I lo you know, what you, you like when you said challenge the status quo that hit home for me today, there is, you know, you know, everybody's listening and thinking about their own lives. I'm like, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, <affirmative>, mm-hmm <affirmative> and that's also being authentic, I think is one of the biggest, I, in my opinion words for the past two years, because we've just really allowed ourselves to strip away some of these hypothetical masks that we were wearing to work. I, I always say like, we wore masks to work before 2020, because we were carrying this barrier that, of this professional that we thought we needed to be. And I'm just loving that the world is really showing more of their true selves. Like, for example, I'm gonna give our audience a little sneak peek in you while we were talking my dog big deal was like, Hey, let me into, <laugh> your podcast. He's closeting. So cute. So he just got a really heinous buzz. Cut, sorry, buddy. But you know, he's so cute.
Traci (35:52):
I wish everyone could see him. Well, I guess on Instagram, they could see,
Erin (35:55):
You can see him big deal, big deal. You, yeah. He's here with us now, but see, those are things that happen. Pets come in the room, people come in the room, you know, it's like things are, we are allowing more of the whole person. I feel like to, of, to be a part of work conversations than before. And I love that. So let's keep doing that. Let's and if you haven't started, let's do it.
Traci (36:18):
Yeah. And I have to say Erin, like you do this really well when we first connected I guess it was for my podcast. I just remember walking away from that conversation, like mildly obsessed with you. And I think it was so bad
Erin (36:32):
<Laugh> well, the feeling was very mutual. Cause we were like,
Traci (36:36):
Yeah, I was like, who is this woman? Why am I just meeting her now? And how can I speak to her more often? Yeah. I just, I, I really think if I go back to like the, the outtakes, I think I did tell you that I was obsessed with you, which, you know, we're all friends here, but yeah. I think you do that really well. Like you just make people want to be themselves and be around you. And even though we've never met in person, like it, it really, it's very hard to translate that virtually, but I, whenever I see you post on Instagram, I'm like, I just love Erin. And that is like, that's the beauty of a meaningful relationship is like, you also take something really great away from that.
Erin (37:13):
Oh my God. I literally have tears in the retina. Aw <laugh> thank you. That is. Can I say something to that? And I, that really, you know, you know, when you, I just feel like that's sort of my calling a little bit right now. I feel like, thank you for saying that I needed again, I, Tracy, I needed to hear this today. Multiple
Traci (37:32):
Times it was in your fortune.
Erin (37:34):
It was in fortune. She predicted that I would needed it and she gave it to me as an HR journalist. I am no, I, that makes me feel so happy. And I will say my mother-in-law, I'm gonna break up my mother-in-law Michelle. Hi, on this show, she recently said to me, she's like, you always root for the underdogs. And I'm like, but you know what? I don't want them. I don't want people who are underdogs to be, I'm not saying you're an underdog. I'm saying, I feel like I've always wanted to live in a world where every single person felt special. And I felt like they
Traci (38:10):
Mattered,
Erin (38:11):
Deserved the, yes, the, the recognition and the attention that I wanted to give them. And so it's, to me, I always feel like I don't see people as such. I see people as like just human beings who need to be connected with, because that's what we're put on the earth to do. And I also think like, to that point, if we could all make everybody feel important, like how cool would that be? And how, what a world, like that's the world I want my son to live in, you know, that's the world. And so I, I feel like that has always been something that I've strived to do even from a young age when I didn't realize it. Cause, and my husband and I talk about this, we've always had different groups of friends. Like we always have really good friends, but we're always, you know, we're not in the same group forever, cuz we want to know and connect with different types of people. And that to me is such a beautiful way to live. And I want, I want to share that with others. So you saying that really means a lot and know that I am working on something about that because I feel like that's what I personally want more of is more of that real authentic connection and belonging. And everybody who listens to the show, loves people. They care about people and they want the same thing and you do too Traci, which is why we were like, yes. And then we talk about Jan, Jan Anderson
Traci (39:39):
Our know I love her.
Erin (39:40):
Oh, okay. If you haven't, I don't even know what episode of our show it is, but she is the avatar behind the not Sherm approved Instagram account. You're welcome. Go look at this account. If you have not, we'll put it in the show notes. Literally. I'm also obsessed with her, me too, but we don't really know Jan.
Traci (39:59):
I know, I know Jen, if you're listening, we wanna do a real lunch with you and it's not just to know who you are, but it's also because we love you. What
Erin (40:07):
If she wore? Like what if we did like a maade yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
O M D <laugh>.
Erin (40:17):
Okay. Wait, let me set this up. Okay. So if you haven't listened to this episode of our show, I will find it. I will link it in the show notes. We had Jan Jerson on. She is not her real name is not Jan Jan Anderson. She is an, she is a real human being behind this account. Not SHRM approved, but she does not want to reveal her real identity. So she came on this show and she's a cartoon character in her avatar and Traci listened to the show. And then we both became obsessed with Jan, but we don't know who real Jan is. We just talked to her on Instagram and fan girl over here all the time. And we just love you, Jan Jann. We love you.
Traci (40:55):
We love you. You I'm looking for the, the episode number, but I haven't been able to find it. Cause you have so many
Erin (40:58):
Amazing. No. Oh, I found it. Is it 80, 84? Okay. It
Traci (41:03):
Is. Do you know? I've like listened to it. I think a couple times over <laugh>
Erin (41:08):
She's like maybe
Traci (41:09):
Twice. I know when she was, when she was cursing, I was like, yeah. I think I told you that. Yes. Like I just love that she's doing that. I'm like, gosh, Jan, Jan Anderson. I love
Erin (41:17):
You. <Laugh> okay. And you and I talked about this on your show. I'm so glad you brought that up because we were like, I don't swear on my show and I do swear in real life. And so I have added in some little beeps in here, you know, little talks and I've done I've, you know, I've added, I've added them to the mix, but I don't, it doesn't come as natural to me on this. Show it as it in real life. Sometimes I'm like, oh
Traci (41:41):
Yeah, no, I'm much better at just cursing. Yes. I'm not fill using a filler word. Like I use nuts and bolts or yeah. Right. Mushrooms or whatever, but I'm really, you know, I'm quite the sailor.
Erin (41:52):
Right. Right. I know. And that's like, we need to be, we have practicing what we preach tri we gotta like be authentic. So yeah.
Traci (42:00):
I know.
Erin (42:00):
So I know, I don't see. I'm like even nervous to do it. I'm like
Traci (42:05):
I know
Erin (42:06):
Poop. Okay. I,
Traci (42:09):
I DT know that that quite,
Erin (42:11):
That is the count. That is the count. Okay. We have not changed the rating of this episode yet. So continue listening. It's the worlds are oyster. Okay. Wait, let me ask you this. What do you hope people, we set an intention for the show. What do you hope people feel about human resources after listening to this episode or listening to any episode of your show? What do you, what do you want people to feel?
Traci (42:37):
Okay. I'm gonna use adjectives.
Erin (42:39):
Yes.
Traci (42:40):
Hope, excitement. Clarity. And I was about to say excitement again, but maybe, maybe it's like anticipation. Like I, I want people to walk away from this episode and all of my episodes having an understanding of what's expected of them, but also finding the joy in what we do. Like some, a lot of what we do is heavy stuff. And, and depending on where you sit in your organization, you could be dealing with things that are really not fun every day. But if you zoom out and you see the impact that you have on your department, on the people, on your organization, all, you know, just generally speaking, I mean, that is so exciting. So I just, I, I, it's an amazing career. I could not imagine being anything other than like an HR person. And even if I am a, a journalist and a fortune teller, like that's fine, but I'm still in HR. Like, you know, so that's great. <Laugh> but yeah, I, I want, I want the people who are really excited about HR and people and challenging the status quo and destigmatizing, all of that stuff. I want them to be in HR and the people who are not excited, not listening to these podcasts, not trying to grow don't care about people. I want them to retire or find another career. So you can make room <laugh> for the people who care, get out, get
Erin (44:10):
Out, get out. I was wondering where you were going with that. And that is the best answer that you could have ever given retire, retire, just retire. And it depends. Even if
Traci (44:20):
You're, you might be 25 years old, retire, just retire,
Erin (44:23):
Retire. When something
Traci (44:25):
Go into journalism, fortune telling highly successful. I can tell you. It's great. I dunno. You're not. If you don't care about, if you're not passionate about what you're doing, why are you doing it? Yep. Go find something else. Go find a different passion. Make room for the person that's been trying to be the HR generalist or HR business partner or payroll manager. Make way for the people who care.
Erin (44:45):
Yes. Oh my God. That's the hashtag of the show. Make way for the people who care make way, make way. Okay. Now this comes to offense. No, it's no taken. I'm loving it. It's was the best answer I've ever heard to that
Traci (44:58):
Question. <Laugh> I'm offense. Haphazard offended people.
Erin (45:05):
No offense just stopped doing what
Traci (45:07):
You're doing. Like retire or find a different job. Yeah.
Erin (45:10):
Yeah. I love that so much. That was amazing. Okay. Well this, this is my last set of questions for you. It's a fail. Yeah. Lightning ground. Okay. It's so Tracy and improv, we say there are no mistakes. There are only gifts we celebrate wins. We celebrate fails. So this is a fun one. I'm gonna ask you a series of one word or one word. I'm gonna ask you a series of questions. And I want you to just respond with one word answers, know that you can't fail, but if you do, I'm gonna give you a big fail. Yeah. And a creepy, like, like come to the circus voice. Okay. So <laugh>
Traci (45:47):
Yeah. I'm really bad at one word answers. If you can't.
Erin (45:49):
No, that's great. HPH and throw out. Okay. But, okay. Are you ready for the failure lightning round?
Traci (45:55):
I'm ready. Okay. Here we go.
Erin (45:58):
One word to describe your early career.
Traci (46:03):
I'm blanking. Wait,
Erin (46:06):
Hold on.
Traci (46:08):
<Laugh> I already failed. I failed on the first.
Erin (46:12):
It's good. You're you're nailing it. There's no mistakes. Only gifts. So what, what would you say early career? Tracy?
Traci (46:19):
Exciting.
Erin (46:20):
Oh, okay. One word to describe where you are now in your career
Traci (46:25):
Growing
Erin (46:26):
One word to describe your podcast. Hosting style
Traci (46:30):
Fun. I hope.
Erin (46:32):
Oh, yep. Yeah. One word.
Traci (46:34):
<Laugh>.
Erin (46:35):
Can I keep doing that? Like a weird creep, but okay. And then one word to describe your work from home fashion. Style
Traci (46:44):
Me
Erin (46:45):
One word to describe this interview
Traci (46:47):
Fun.
Erin (46:48):
<Laugh> yes.
Traci (46:50):
Yay.
Erin (46:51):
You nailed it. You can't
Traci (46:52):
Fail twice. Did I? Did I fail in that or
Erin (46:54):
No? No, you didn't. And I didn't even give that direction. You know what? I failed and my direction giving. So
Traci (47:00):
Yeah. <Laugh>
Erin (47:05):
Feels kinda good to say. You're like the fan, come, come get your hair. This
Traci (47:11):
Is like truly how I act like in my personal life. So I feel, I feel like myself, me
Erin (47:17):
Drew Tracy, and it's like, you can't hide it. You can, this is what you get, you know? And I always say, I'm like, what did I say this one time? I said, oh, I'm an acquired taste. And if you, oh, if I'm not your cup of tea, go get a cup of coffee. I said that on some, the show. And I was like, did, was that kind? I don't know. Yes.
Traci (47:36):
Who's direct. You can be direct and kind. I like that.
Erin (47:38):
You're right. And Traci, we're just living our lives, doing what we do.
Traci (47:42):
I mean, it's true. If you don't like what you're seeing go find someone else to look at
Erin (47:47):
Or retire or, or
Traci (47:48):
Retire. Yeah. Like I was thinking about Instagram in that moment. Like you don't like who you follow just on
Erin (47:53):
Follow. Just, just,
Traci (47:54):
Just retire
Erin (47:54):
Just
Traci (47:55):
To lead, delete Instagram. You know what? There you go.
Erin (47:57):
Just delete it. Who needs it? Who that's the whole other episode? I definitely wanna. Okay.
Traci (48:01):
Oh my God. We're gonna, I have such a love, hate relationship with social media. I wanna just give it all up, but I feel like I need it for the pod.
Erin (48:08):
You need it for the pod and okay. We're gonna have you back to talk about, we're gonna do a fun one, the ROI of HR plus Instagram and predictions of the future. We've got a whole show plan.
Traci (48:21):
You can make it Instagram, like make the I part of it. I mean, it doesn't really make sense, but it makes sense in my,
Erin (48:28):
It does return on Instagram. That's it? That is it. Okay. We're having you back. Let me ask you this. If they wanted to find you on Instagram or on your podcast, where could our, our audience find you?
Traci (48:41):
Well, thank you for asking HR. Traci is the, is everything. So Instagram is HR. Tracy. That's HR T R ACI. My LinkedIn has the hashtag of HR. Traci. My website is HR. Traci.com. It is, that is the branding. So wherever you wanna find me, you can, you can find me there. If you want to email me, you can email me at podcast, HR, traci.com. And my podcast again is bringing the human back to human resources and you can listen anywhere and you can watch the video episodes on Spotify or on YouTube, wherever you wanna consume it.
Erin (49:14):
Listen, listen, listen, such a great show and okay, Traci, I am so glad that the podcasting airwaves brought us together. I gotta say that. And you're, you're a guiding light. You're making human beings everywhere. Realize that human resources are just that resources that can help your career, your life, and ultimately guide you to have the career that you've always dreamed of. So I wanna thank you so much for coming on our show. I adore. I'm obsessed with you. Oh
Traci (49:45):
My God. No, thank you. Thank you, Erin. This is, and also by the way, I'd like to just remind everyone that the goal of this episode for, you know, the goal that I, I wanted to walk away with was to have a lot of laughs. That was the hyphen. A lot of laughs and we had a lot of laughs
Erin (50:01):
Nailed it.
Traci (50:01):
So well done, Erin. Nailed it.
Erin (50:04):
Nailed it. Nailed it. Thank you.
Traci (50:07):
Thank you.
Erin (50:16):
Oh, okay. What an episode? What a gal. I adore her. I could literally talk to her forever and we will definitely have her back on the show. So if you want her to come back on, send us a note at info at learn to improve it, tell us what you liked, what you want more of. We also have in the show notes, a speak pipe message center, where you can send us a voice note. So do that. If you have questions or if you want to ask a question about a, a previous episode or you wanna learn more so we can create content for you about that specific topic. So, you know, I like to give you a takeaway, give you some homework for your day. Here's what I want you to do. I loved when Tracy talked about knowing your audience, how to talk to leadership, to value human resources.
Erin (51:08):
Now, if you are not an HR leader and you are a leader of a separate department or function, this also applies to you. So it doesn't have to be specific to HR. She really honed in on how to give information to leadership. Think about the audience before you give that information. So if you are a leader listening today and you are feeling frustrated because you are not sensing that leadership values or sees the work that you're doing as valuable. I want you to do this. I want you to think about the person that you wanna get buy-in from, who is that person? Number one, write that down. Who is that person? And what is their title? Number two, I want you to think like this human being. So let's say you want to talk to your C H R O about the work that you're doing, and you wanna have a very specific conversation around xtop right?
Erin (52:11):
You want, you want your teams work to be seen and heard and valued. I want you to think about what does this person do on a daily basis? So number two is write down what does this person do on a daily basis? The tasks that they do. And then number three, I want you to think about three adjectives that describe this human that you are going to talk to. That is your audience. That is your person. And I want you to tailor your message around what your frustration is to that person. So with that role, you're talking to somebody who's a C H R O, that person cares about people. You're probably going to have some people driven analytics. You're going to have some people soft skill language, and you're gonna have some information on people, right? And you're gonna, and you're gonna say that in a way that allows that person to relate to that conversation.
Erin (53:14):
So number two was what do they do on a daily basis? Think about what matters. That's what I want you to do in that situation. Think about what matters to that person, what tasks that they're doing, where this could come into play and how you can weave that conversation into their day to day. So it becomes top of mind. And then number three, those adjectives, I want you to try to use those adjectives in that conversation. Use the words that describe that person to describe the work that you're doing, because then that person will feel seen and they will feel heard while you're advocating for the work that you are doing and for your team. Oh my goodness. You know what I'm gonna say? You've got this. You can do it. HR is the heartbeat of an organization. Leaders, people, leaders are the heartbeat of an organization and it's up to you to advocate for yourself.
Erin (54:12):
So go out there, do it, but know the audience that you're going to do it too. And how you're going to deliver that message. Improve it. Fam we are still working on a name change here. It's coming soon. I wanna just tell you first and foremost, I want you to keep failing. I want you to keep improving even just a little bit, because you know that the world needs that special. It that only you can bring, I cannot wait to see you next time. Bye. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy you were along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to the show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I wanna leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.