Episode 133: The Behavioral Science Behind Big Feelings with Liz Fosslien
Liz Fosslien is the co-author and illustrator of the national best-seller Big Feelings and the Wall Street Journal best-seller No Hard Feelings (which have both been translated into 15+ languages). Liz is an expert on effectively embracing emotions at work, and as the Head of Content and Communications at Humu, she empowers leaders to develop and manage high-performing, inclusive teams.
Liz regularly speaks about how to walk the line between sharing and oversharing, build resilience, and help teams avoid burnout. Her work has been featured by Good Morning America, TED, The New York Times, NPR, Shondaland, Adam Grant, and Mindy Kaling.
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Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 133 Transcription
Erin (00:01):
Improve it! Peeps. I am just honored to have today's guest on the show. If you have been scrolling Instagram or LinkedIn and you see awesome illustrations of emotions you have seen the work of our next guest, Liz Fosslien, of the popular Instagram account , @lizandmolle. Not just Instagram, Liz is all over LinkedIn with these beautiful light blue illustrations with thin diagrams and graphs that talk about emotions that we as human beings process. Now here's how Liz Fosslien is improving it. She's an expert on how to make work better. The head of content and communications at Humu and the co-author and illustrator of the bestselling book, Big Feelings and The Wall Street Journal bestseller, No Hard Feelings. Now her work has been featured by Good Morning America, the New York Times, the Economist Time, Ted and CNN. She's given keynotes about emotions at work and organizations like inclu-
Erin (01:07):
So let me say that again. She has given keynotes (no mistakes, only gifts) about emotions at work, at organizations, including Google, LinkedIn, NPR, and Spotify. I am so thrilled to have her on the show. You're going to hear all about her two books, but most importantly, her newest book, Big Feelings, why it's so important to create this book now, how to help team members navigate through negative emotions and how we as leaders can help our team and ourselves process these big feelings at work. I am so thrilled to have her and have had this conversation. Let's get to improving it with the one, the only, Liz Fosslien. Are you a leader searching for new and innovative ways to drive employee engagement and team morale through the roof? Do you wanna create a company culture where everyone feels seen, heard and valued? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv edu entertainer, Phil Fluer and Professional Zombie who is ready to help you improve your it, your it being the thing that makes you, you think of me as your keeping it real.
Erin (02:29):
Professional development bestie who is here to help you learn from your failures, stand tall in your power and improve yourself so you can improve the lives of others. Oh, and did I mention that we are improving your IT through play? That's right. I am an improvisational comedy expert who uses experiential learning to help you have your aha haha moments. Those are the moments when the light bulb goes off and you're laughing at the same time. So grab your chicken hat, your notebook, and your inner child because I'm gonna take you on a journey that is both fun and transformative. Welcome to the improve it! podcast. Liz, I am so excited to have you on the improve it! podcast. Welcome my friend. Welcome.
Liz (03:27):
Thanks for having me. I am very excited to be here.
Erin (03:32):
Okay, so I have been following you for years. I love your content. I love what you do. I love how you do it. If somebody listening here today has never seen Liz has never seen @lizandmollie -- doesn't know anything about you, what are five fun facts, even if we knew stuff about you that we couldn't find on your Instagram, on your LinkedIn, anything like that? Five fun things that you wanna share with us. Just interesting facts and I'll count, Here we go. One. Okay.
Liz (04:11):
So I do a lot of illustration work around emotions in the workplace, but I actually studied math and economics, so don't have an art background. <Laugh>. Yeah, <laugh>. This. You see that show up like a lot of the illustrations have charts and Venn diagrams, so that's why there's so many charts. <Laugh>. That's my background. So that's number one.
Erin (04:30):
Ok. Two, coming back to that
Liz (04:33):
Two. Totally unrelated to what I do. I've eaten the same breakfast for about seven years. It's just my happy place routine. I travel with it like I need to eat it. I'm worried if I would ever stop eating it. Like what would happen to my digestive system?
Erin (04:50):
<Laugh>. Ok. What is the breakfast? We need to know that This is two and half,
Liz (04:54):
What is it? Just Greek yogurt with some peanut butter swirled in. And then I eat like a Luna bar and sort of crumple it in like a little granola. And then I have a cup of coffee. So it's nothing revolutionary. But I don't know, I literally go to bed at night excited to read my practice in the morning.
Erin (05:13):
That is not okay. You and I have to talk about this. We're coming back to fact number two. Okay. Because this is a, I'm factoid, I'm so glad I learned three
Liz (05:22):
Three. I have worked with all kinds of different companies to help leaders and teams become better, help themselves feel better at work, help others feel better. So everything from like the US Air Force to hospitals, to tech companies. And it's always really fascinating to me to see how fundamentally people want the same things at work, no matter what their job is. So, you know, firefighters, all that. Cause everyone wants meaning everyone wants to feel a sense of belonging. So it's cool to see that in so many different environments.
Erin (05:56):
I love this so much. Okay. Four.
Liz (06:00):
Four. I just had a baby three months ago. And so yeah, as we start talking about emotions, I feel like I have a lot of them. And it's also funny to watch my son cry, you know? And sometimes he'll laugh and then cry and then laugh again. And it sort of makes me realize that we're all kind of just big babies. You know? When I haven't slept, when I'm hungry, Yeah. I'm more likely to cry. <Laugh>. Nice. It's humbling.
Erin (06:29):
Oh my God. I love it. Okay, five, five. Cause we, we have so much to talk about just from these facts. Okay. Five.
Liz (06:35):
Five is my favorite part of both books, which is a small detail as an illustrator, is that the inside cover has little, it's like a little patterned illustration. And it's just, I fought to have that in the book. It's very small. It's like a design element, but it always delights me. It's one of my favorite things that I got slide into the
Erin (06:58):
Books. Yes. You're like, this is my win. This book is a win. But this right here, this pattern is my win. I love it so much. Okay. I'm, We have to unpack so many of these facts, but I wanna start with number two because it's so important. What type of Greek yogurt is it?
Liz (07:14):
Oh, so I have tried all the Greek jokers.
Erin (07:16):
Yeah. No,
Liz (07:17):
I'm here for this. It's just, it's just plain non-fat. So I like the tanginess. But my husband actually, so my favorite is the Trader Joe's brand. Oh. And my husband once said, he was like, I actually don't think that you could identify Trader Joe's yogurt in a taste test. So he bought five different brands of yogurt. And then I put a blindfold on and he admits I got five outta five right. <laugh>. So I'm incredibly good at identifying. That's what happens. I was like, I eat this every morning. Yes. Do not question my skills.
Erin (07:53):
Exactly. Okay. Wait, let me ask you this is, do you, you said you travel with this, do you like buy the Trader Joe's yogurt where you go? Or do you pack it with you?
Liz (08:03):
No, I'm, I can be more flexible on what yogurt it is. That's my favorite. But yeah, I usually, I'll buy it when I land. So if I'm staying at a hotel, I always check that there's a mini fridge, <laugh>. I go in the evening, get the yogurt and have it for breakfast. But I do travel with the Luna Bars because those, they're harder to find.
Erin (08:24):
Okay. This is so fascinating. Okay. I have eaten Fage Greek yogurt with fruit for approximately, I don't even know, since 2010. Literally 12 years. It's the best. The best. Yes And no, I truly, so this is where I, I get crazy sometimes I'll do raspberries, sometimes I'll put strawberries in there. Sometimes I'll put just almonds or granola. Like what? But no,
Liz (08:49):
That's too much variation for me.
Erin (08:52):
That's right. I'm nuts. I'm nuts when I add the nuts. But no, I hear you because I also think about it and when I, it's funny because one of our, our Director of Talent here, we travel a lot together and she's an oatmeal fan, so she always, we always around the road, we’re like, let's get oatmeal. And I'm always like, I need a yogurt parfait. I need some type of yogurt with fruit and berries and that's what I need. And maybe granola and I just, I don't know. It's, you know what, you know.
Liz (09:16):
I love that. I've never met someone else who does this. This is so exciting.
Erin (09:20):
<Laugh>. Wait, Liz. Okay, so we were talking before the show about your new born baby Leo, which is so exciting. Is that okay? I shared the name. That's okay. I shared his name. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Okay. Yeah. So remember I told you I just had a guest on the show who also had a baby recently. This same conversation came up. I kid you not that she also eats the same thing for breakfast every day.
Liz (09:44):
Wow.
Erin (09:45):
Kid you not, So you we're doing,
Liz (09:47):
We need to start a group.
Erin (09:48):
I think we do Breakfast Besties. We'll make bracelets. Love it. That is so funny. Well, I am thrilled to have you on the show, especially to talk about big emotions, big feelings, all the things I, you know, it's interesting how parallel your life sometimes work in tandem with your job. Because today I'm back from a 24 hour like work bender. Like I literally flew out Monday night, did a keynote yesterday and flew back home last night. So I was feeling some big feelings today before chatting with you. And I'm like, how perfect is it that I get to chat with Liz when I'm having these big feelings, <laugh> and hopefully we can help others. So before, before we dive into the books and all the amazing things that you've been putting out into the world, cuz you truly help so many people just with an Instagram post. I mean, literally your posts are so relatable, they make us stop and think. But I wanna set an intention for today's show. What is one word that you would like to give our audience or yourself today?
Liz (11:01):
Permission.
Erin (11:04):
<Laugh>. I'm snapping. No one can see this. If you're listening, I'm snapping. Yes. And yes and yes, Liz. I love it so much. So let's start really quickly with just where you're at because you are a new mom and can you just tell us what life's been like for you in the past few months?
Liz (11:21):
Yeah, it's been everything, basically any emotion times 10. So really exhausting. I've also just been dealing with some postpartum anxiety that I'm trying to, you know, tell, you know, tell myself everything's okay. It's probably a lot of hormones too. But then also just magical and delightful. And actually we, we talked about this. It's also been a really big identity shift of, I've always been someone who I love my career. I love what I do. I also love this little baby. And so now it's kinda a, you know, I'm ending my maternity leave. So it'll be interesting to see how those two reconcile because I think the biggest realization I've had with a baby is how limited time is. It blows my mind how I dunno what I do. And suddenly it 7:00 PM I've, oh gosh, time and that's, I'm, which is great, you know, help unsurprisingly is very helpful. But yeah, I'm a little nervous about going back to work and just seeing how, how to balance all of those, all of these like different new things in my life.
Erin (12:47):
I hear you so hard. Thank you for being vulnerable and, and just sharing that journey because it is so hard. A lot of women struggle with it. I struggled with it. And I'll remember too being like, I wish I had an extra pair of hands. Like honestly, I couldn't mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, I remember being like, how do you physically do anything <laugh> with your phone? And I remember some of my best friends having children and like texting me up a storm. I'm like, what is the, how does that happen? Cause I, I was not, I'm just gonna share this. My son never latched, so I couldn't breastfeed. So I was constantly bottle feeding and yeah. Like I could, I didn't have hands. And so they're like texting all the time while they had children. And I'm like, what were you do- like who was texting for you?
Erin (13:30):
Were you using voice to text? I hear ya. And it's, that's a lot of feelings. It's a lot of emotions. It's a blessing. It's the most beautiful thing. But it's also hard because our bodies just went on a roller coaster for a year plus, and then you've got the fourth trimester, which is adjusting to life post-birth. So I'm so here for you. There is a army of women out here to support you and I appreciate you sharing that because it is so real. And now, okay, I wanna talk really quick because you have two best selling books very appropriately titled No Hard Feelings, and now this book Big Feelings. And I heard, so we were both on the Passion Struck podcast, shout out to John Myles. But I heard you mention on his show that your publisher was skeptical, skeptical about publishing this book, Big Feelings. And I wanna ask you, why do you think it was so important to create this book at this time? At where we're at right now?
Liz (14:39):
Yeah, so the quick backstory is the first book, No Hard Feelings which was about emotions and teamwork. Leadership came out February, 2019 and then later that year, Molly, my co-author and I, we both went through really hard times in our personal lives. So I lost my father-in-law to cancer. And it was one of those situations where there just is no silver lining, there's no bright side, there's not an affirmation that you can say to make yourself feel better. And Molly went through something similar. And so we came up with this book called Big Feelings, which is kinda ironic after no hard feelings. But it really, we wanted to explore what happens when things feel overwhelming and that the tactics that you might normally try no longer work when it's more of a recovery process as opposed to here are three tips for improving your situation.
Liz (15:34):
And yeah, so we pitched that to our publisher in January 20, so this is pre, and the feedback we got from them was that it was kinda a depressing topic and was there really gonna be an audience for big feelings? And I love our publisher. I think they were just responding to, you know, things were, I dunno, I dunno wanna say they were good, but things were semi-normal in January 20. So they passed on that idea. Then comes the pandemic. So much happens. So in June, 2020, they came back and were like, Hey, remember that book about anxiety? And we think we wanna publish that. Yeah. And what's been interesting with it is, so it definitely was sort of, the book was published because of the pandemic because the world went through all of these really difficult emotions together. But as Molly and I have been talking more about the book, and even as we were interviewing people is we were writing it, what struck me is that the majority of the stories were actually not pandemic related.
Liz (16:36):
So even though the pandemic maybe changed how vulnerable we're willing to be, especially at work, it people were feeling all of these things before, during and unfortunately will continue feeling 'em. And I think it's just a reminder of it's normal. If you live long enough, that's what you're signing up for. You're gonna lose people you love, you're gonna fail at some point. You're not gonna have things work out. You're gonna be anxious, you're gonna compare yourself to others. And I think if we can just accept that those are parts of life and there's also obviously amazing parts of life, life, it helps us feel a little better when we're going through it because we know we're not alone. We don't need to stigmatize ourselves for having a normal range of emotions.
Erin (17:25):
A thousand percent. I love that so much. And I love that you said, you know, you are not alone. And I think for many people, 2020 to 2022, I always say is like the longest decade. But it, because it really felt like, so it's still, it's for me personally, it feels like I'm not only processing the past two years, but I had some sort of pin up things that I hadn't processed that just amplified and are now manifesting themselves as physical pain. Like I've had chronic back pain for the past past year basically. And I think this is so awesome to even bring this topic to the forefront of organizations and company cultures because we saw in this time period, we as human beings are really showing up authentically, dare I say real, when we're sitting at home and we can see what's going on behind the office desk, behind the fancy walls and the glass doors of a beautiful office building.
Erin (18:37):
We saw people's real lives. And allowing those people to have big feelings and process them in a real way is so important. So I'm so glad that your publisher finally realized in June that it was time <laugh>. So speaking of this idea of being less alone, so somebody listening today is having big feelings. I know this used to be portrayed in a negative way. What would you tell somebody listening today who is feeling a lot of feels to make them feel less alone? And I'm hopeful that what you say can translate for the leaders listening today to empathize with their teams.
Liz (19:23):
Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Yeah. So the first thing is you are not alone. We definitely tend to have this we have a tendency to, when we feel badly, we make our s selves feel bad for feeling bad, and that's just gonna make you feel worse. So the first thing is just acceptance and acknowledgement of, yes, I'm feeling this emotion. And also being careful not to label emotions as negative. So they can be really hard, very difficult, but things like regret or anger are still telling you something valuable about your life. So they're a response to some kinda stimulus. So it's still important not to say this is bad, like they're protecting you. Anger is usually protecting you because there was a violation that occurred. And then to go back to not being alone for big feelings, it was the second book. Molly and I surveyed about 1500 people all around the world, different ages, different backgrounds.
Liz (20:19):
And we asked them, Have you ever heard emotions like uncertainty, regret, anger, labeled as bad, and have you felt badly for having them? And almost every single person said yes. And then we asked the same group of people, Have you experienced any of these emotions in the past couple months? And again, almost every single person said yes. So it's like everyone has these feelings, everyone experiences them, and yet we still feel like we need to label them as negative. Like, we're going through this alone. So I think the first piece of advice is just the permission to say, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling anxious. I don't need to feel badly. It's trying to tell me something. And I think even just that allowing yourself to experience the emotion without layering a ton of self-blame on top is a way to give yourself grace.
Erin (21:14):
I love that so much. And there's that word permission. Your intention came up. Let me ask this, and this is sort of in relation to what you just said. So if somebody find, like, let's say this, a person has a big emotion or a big feeling and they disassociate and they don't process it in real time let's say they throw themselves into work or they throw themselves into parenting, or they throw themselves into just the next project or the next thing and they just continue on without realizing that this emotion exists, What would you say, and I love this idea of giving yourself permission, but how do, do you, how do you tell that person to heal? What would be the first step for them to overcome that emotion when they finally realize what that emotion is?
Liz (22:16):
So first of all, it is actually doing the uncomfortable thing and sitting with it. So in the short term, that feels terrible, but in the long term, when we don't address emotions, they, and so anger can turn into something more poisonous, like resentment or it can also show up, like you said, as physical pain. So if you're burnt out and you try to keep going, you might get headaches, you might start having pain, back pain, all kinds of things. So even though it feels worse in the moment to confront that emotion, it's actually what you need to do to help yourself in the long term. And then once you say, you know, I feel anxious, let's say, the next question is always to ask yourself why. So what is driving this emotion? What need do I have that is not being met? And so in a work context, if you feel anxious, it might be you have a huge deadline and you're unsure if you're gonna be able to meet that deadline.
Liz (23:15):
And so once you've figured out what that need is, then you actually can take a useful next step to make yourself feel better. So it's talk to your manager, see if you can change the scope of the project, see if there's, you know, you can ask for help from someone and that's gonna help that emotion, you know, dissolve or feel better or go away. And what happens is when you don't do those steps, that's when the anxiety, you just, it sits in you and in you and then it, you just become more and more nervous. You have this more heightened physiological response and it becomes this really challenging thing because you also never sat down and thought, how can I make this better? You're kinda just like trying to power through without ever addressing that unmet need.
Erin (23:59):
Mm. I love that. If, okay, so let's go back to this, this example. You're somebody who's, okay, my needs aren't being met. You ask yourself, what do I need? And then maybe your leader, your your manager feels a shift from you because you're going through this healing journey. If you were that person, how would you communicate that to your boss or manager?
Liz (24:28):
Yeah, so it really depends on the relationship you have with your boss or manager. So in some workplaces you feel a lot of trust, you feel you can be vulnerable and there you might be able to share. You might even just feel able to come out and say, again, I'm feeling really anxious about this deadline and I need help prioritizing my work. I am just, here's what I'm going through in my personal life and I just wanna flag it so that you don't think I'm slacking off or disengaged. It's just, I'm dealing with a lot right now. In some workplaces, unfortunately, people aren't gonna feel as comfortable sharing that with their manager or they don't think it's gonna be received positively. And so in those cases, it's extra important to figure out what those needs are because then you can often go to your manager with a need.
Liz (25:15):
And so you're still addressing the emotion, but you don't need to talk about it. So again, if it's, I'm really anxious because of the deadline, you might go to your manager and say, here are the five things I'm working on this week to hit this deadline. Can you help me prioritize them? And often when they see the whole list of things you're working on, they might even say, oh, number four is not mission critical, why don't you just drop that? And so it's a way of helping yourself feel better, but still going to your manager and focusing it on the work, which some people, again, unfortunately not every work environment is one in which people are gonna feel comfortable like sharing everything with their boss or talking openly about feelings. So then talking about the need and how they can help you with that can be really effective.
Erin (26:00):
I love that. And I think it's important to, for leaders to see that struggle with your team member and help them navigate. What would be an easy question for a leader to ask a team member if they see them struggling and may realize that, hey, this person's having some big feelings. What would be, what would be a question that you could ask?
Liz (26:27):
Yeah, I'll give two just so people have options. Yeah. The first is, what is one thing I can do to better support you? So research shows, if I ask you, is there anything I can do to support you? It's really easy for you to say, No, that's fine. And then the conversation continues. But if I say what one thing I'm kinda of forcing you to give me something specific and actionable. And so it's just much more likely that you'll get a response where you actually can, you know, do something. The question if another option is kinda a two parter. So what's been a win for you over the past week and what's been challenging? And I like that one because it doesn't just focus on the challenging. By having them focus on a win, you give them recognition, you can offer them praise, you remind them that they're capable and then they might feel a little more confident sharing what's challenging because it's not just, oh, I'm really going through it. It's, Oh yeah, I did do this amazing thing. And so this is challenging, but it's not, it doesn't make me a terrible employee, a terrible person. It's just, you know, part of the variety of life. It's that some things are going well. <Laugh>. <Laugh>. Yeah. And some things are not <laugh>. So yeah. So what one thing can I do to better support you? And then what's been a win and what's been a challenge over the past week?
Erin (27:46):
Oh my god, I love it. I wrote those down. Those are amazing. And I definitely, we say, what's one thing I can stop doing and one thing I can start doing in our weekly meetings.
Liz (27:56):
Oh, I love those,
Erin (27:58):
But I like yours because it's, then we also try to do a peak every week, but I like, what's the win and what's been challenging? I'm gonna try that. We're gonna change it up. We're gonna get a little nuts.
Liz (28:07):
Cool. The peak is something like the highlight of your
Erin (28:10):
Week. Yeah, we always do like, what's your peak from last week when we always do our weekly team meeting and that's a reflection point, but we don't, we, the start and stop is, is where we sort of talk about the challenging. But I like, I like the way you framed it, so my use that list. Thank you. Thank you. You impacted one person and now many <laugh>. Ok. So lemme ask you this. I also, I I love your podcast with John. I'm passion struck when you talked about letting go and letting go I think is something that when we have big feelings and big emotions, it's not easy to do. Because I think for me personally, a lot of times my pent-up emotions come from not letting go and trying to control things is Type A recovering perfectionist. Turn, turn, fell flu, turn, fell flu. Love it. So what, how have you, what have you done to let go in your life and by letting go I sort of mean not trying to control things, not trying to make them perfect. What have, what have you seen or done in your life to let go of control?
Liz (29:31):
Well, one is, I had a baby and I just don't have control over anything anymore. <Laugh>,
Erin (29:37):
That is a fact that
Liz (29:39):
It's like a crash course and oh, I, I'm just frantically reacting. But so for, for a maybe more scalable answer, I would say one thing that I do is I try to, when I feel myself, so for me, when I notice I'm not letting go, when I'm trying to control things that are beyond my control, I start to feel really anxious and panicky. And so when I do that, now I have an intention around just stopping and asking myself am I creating urgency where there doesn't need to be any. So often what happens is I just want to get through my to-do list or I want to finish this task. And I have, again, I have, I feel just so much adrenaline around it. And then I stop and say, do I need to do this right now? Or could I do it tomorrow or could I do it next week?
Liz (30:29):
And then I can buy myself some more time, build more breaks into my day, actually feel better. So it's this really clear am I creating an emergency urgency where there doesn't need to be any. And then the other thing is, what would I say if my friend were in this situation? So there's research that shows that we're actually much better at advocating for our friends, for encouraging them to practice self-compassion, self care, and then for ourselves, you know, it's just this litany of you need to do more, you need to do better, you're not doing enough. And so really stopping to think. If my friend came to me with this situation, I probably would tell 'em it's fine. <Laugh> you. Yeah. Just doesn't need to be perfect. You're doing great. And so just like, take a break today. So I, those are two that have been helpful for me. It's, I think the one of like, what would I say to my friend or someone I love? And then also why am I not saying the same thing to myself?
Erin (31:24):
Yeah, no, that is so true. I always, I mean literally, I just was thinking about this the other day. I'm like, Erin, get a, get a grip. Talk to yourself the way that you would your team. Cuz I'm like always so supportive. Yeah, I, I, you know, I feel you on that and I'm gonna take that with me too. And, and I, I wanna say this like, you are so amazing in how you create these beautiful illustrations and you do it with your friend Molly. And so well you create the illustrations. I wanna I wanna talk about your relationship speaking of friends, but I know as a creative entrepreneur myself, you have to be in this sort of flow state and not in this sense of urgency and reaction in order to be creative. Right? So I feel that just goes hand in hand. And I wanted to ask that because I, I read on your website how you and Molly met cuz you're at Liz and Molly at Instagram and all of your illustrations and you were set up on a friend date, right? Which I think is so cool. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, how do you get into this flow state and get into this creative process together? So my, I, the way I envision it, I'm like, you sit down, you brainstorm ideas and then you take those ideas and you illustrate, Is that, is that right? Or how does it look?
Liz (32:43):
Yeah, so I come up with the ideas and do all the illustrations myself and then Molly and I write the books together. So there's sort of two different flow states. There's one which is writing and one which is illustrating. So for writing, what actually has helped is that we, this was a bumpy road at first, but we figured out each other's strengths and weaknesses. So I love to edit so you can gimme words and I love to go in and figure out what's a fun way to say this? What should go where, what's a flow that makes Molly loves to fill up a so she can write 7,000 words, no problem. And so when we first started writing together, we bumped heads a lot because I was like, there's too many words. And then she said, You're obsessing over the details. And it was funny because we didn't realize how complimentary those skills were.
Liz (33:35):
It was just like, you are working differently than I am, therefore I don't like it <laugh>. Yeah. And so then we had to have some like very honest conversations and now, you know, we've worked together, we've been writing two books together, we've written a lot of articles. I dunno, we've been working almost a decade together. It's really easy because she fills up the page and then I go in with the little lawn mower and clean everything up and it's the perfect partnership. But again, we didn't realize that at first. And then I did wanna point out on the illustration side, so yeah, I come up with the ideas, draw everything and it is really important to get into that flow state. And so I, one of the things that I tell people is I always try to make time for garbage time, which is these moments in life that we don't associate with productivity or creative output, but that are essential.
Liz (34:27):
So binge watching a show, going for a walk, laughing with your friends, going to a fun dinner, right? We don't think of those as advancing our career or making us more creative, but you need to be open to new experiences and you need to let your brain rest in order for you to have that creative flow come out. And so I set aside time in which I'm drawing, but then I also on the weekends, like I have one weekend day where I say I'm not do any work. I'm not gonna put pressure on myself. This is the day that I actually need recharge. Do do all that sort of subconscious putting stuff together. And then I find the following day I just have so many ideas I feel really reinvigorated. And so it's so crucial to invest in that, again, garbage time because without it you're not gonna be creative.
Erin (35:20):
Oh my God, I love that You call it garbage time and you know what's amazing cause, but okay, first of all, I need to know your favorite show that you binge watch. What's your favorite show?
Liz (35:30):
Oh my gosh. Truly terrible. Like any reality, anything on Bravo <laugh>.
Erin (35:36):
Yeah. Yeah.
Liz (35:37):
It's just like, it's just so fun to watch and it doesn't take a lot of brain power to follow
Erin (35:43):
<Laugh>. Oh my god. I live in Charleston. I'm obsessed with Southern Charm. It's like my favorite show. Yeah. It's so, but I also, I can get into a housewife. I can do it all. Yeah, I'm with you. It's like such brain, It's like my mind goes numb and then it's just like, it's like, oh, child watching KO Melon. It's like, you know, <laugh>.
Erin (36:03):
I'm so with you for that. But it's so funny you say that Liz and I mention today, I mean, I'm burned out today. I'm tired. I'm literally like, give me, there's not enough coffee in Seattle <laugh>. And I said to myself, I gotta go on a walk before I talk to Liz. I got to, I need sunshine. I live in a beautiful, beautiful place and I need to embrace it and I need to go get a walk on and just have a podcast and just walk and just, just just be me for a minute. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I tell you what, in 20 minutes I came back and I felt rejuve. Yeah. And it's so true. You need that. And it's like, I, I don't think people recognize that enough. And the fact that you recognize that you need that flow state, that in order for the flow state to exist is so perfect. I wanna talk about these illustrations really quick because they're everywhere. Did you know this is what, did you know you would have this blossom in your career when they started taking off? What was that like for you?
Liz (37:09):
No, not at all. <Laugh>. One of my, I think one of my friends was actually, this was even before the books. I was always doodling and, and drawing little things. And I would send some to her and she finally said, Hey, you should put these on the internet somewhere. So it, I definitely didn't go into it being like, I'm gonna create a social media account and post illustrations to it and grow the account. It was very, I'll just throw some of this stuff online, see what happens. So I got really lucky in that sense, but it's been, it's essentially therapy for me. So what I really love about it is everything that I post is just what I'm feeling. So that's, yeah. That's almost always where I draw the inspiration is I'm feeling really stressed or I'm feeling overwhelmed by the world or grateful for something.
Liz (37:56):
And the illustrations are sort of purposefully simple because I don't wanna, I, I just like don't wanna disclose too much personal information. But then the unintended benefit of that was that I think it makes them, like anyone can relate to them because it's not like this is an illustration by a woman who lives in San Francisco who, you know, whatever details of my life, it's really like, this is just a human feeling things. Yeah. And ultimately we're all humans feeling things. And so it's just so cool to see people from all around the world who are very different than I'm will send me messages and say this resonated with me. And that, yeah, it's just like one of the most magical things that has happened in my life. It's very cool.
Erin (38:42):
So cool. Well, I saw one you just posted recently. It was like the iPhone alarm clock and it was like, where I wanna be and like who I wanna be. And it was like 7:00 AM and it was like where I actually am seven 30. Yeah. And it was like, yeah, that is me. Cause I, I have struggled with, I mean truly it has taken me years to make myself get up and do things that I wanna do before my son gets up. So yeah, I'm with you and I lo and it's like you can see yourself in them and it goes back to you helping people not feel alone and just making people feel as if they're heard through your artwork, which is so cool. And now your books, let me ask you this. On this show we always say our, the name of our show is Improve It. The name of the company is Improve It, But your, it is your purpose, the one thing that you've put on this earth here to do. So Liz, what is your it?
Liz (39:44):
I think it's just people's relationships with their inner selves, with your emotions, not beating yourself up for what you're experiencing and then also just helping people treat themselves with a bit more kind. Cause I think that will ripple out to their interactions to the workplace, to everything else.
Erin (40:01):
Permission. Give them permission. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, that's like your intention, which is you're It, which I love. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Okay. So I got end this with something really fun. It's called the Failure Lightning Ground. So I, like I said, I I love a fa so I, like I said, recovering perfectionist turned feel flu. It's super easy. Super quick, I'm gonna just give you some rapid fire questions and I just want you to respond with one word answers. And if you say more than one word, I'm just gonna say fail. Yeah. In a creepy, weird voice like that. Okay. Are you ready for the failure lighting round, Liz?
Liz (40:38):
I think so. Here we go.
Erin (40:39):
You got it. You got it. Okay. One word to describe your early career
Liz (40:44):
Confusing
Erin (40:46):
<Laugh>. One word to describe where you now are and your career
Liz (40:51):
Content.
Erin (40:52):
Ooh, one word to describe your leadership style.
Liz (40:56):
Supportive.
Erin (40:58):
One word to describe your work from home slash new Mom. Fashion. Style,
Liz (41:03):
Sweatpants.
Erin (41:04):
<Laugh>. Yes. And one word to describe this interview.
Liz (41:09):
Fun
Erin (41:10):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Yes. Okay. If our audience, San Pees wanted to find you, they wanna connect obviously at and Molly, but where else could they find you and what else could they learn from you?
Liz (41:25):
Yeah, so LinkedIn, Liz Fastline, Twitter. My website is fastline.com. It's a confusing last name. It's hard to spell, but if you try, it's, it's very unique <laugh>. So you'll probably end up there. Yeah, I think those are the best places. And then my, my contact info is on my website, so I'm always, always love it when people get in touch.
Erin (41:47):
Yes. And we'll link all of that and the show notes too. But Liz, I gotta tell you, I'm so happy that you were on the show. I'm having some big feelings about you being here today. Oh, <laugh>. And you're just awesome. So thank you for just having this conversation, for sharing your work with the world and please continue to do it. We need it. And I'm so grateful that you give us permission to be our best, most authentic selves.
Liz (42:12):
Yeah. Thanks for giving me a platform today. I really appreciate it.
Erin (42:17):
Oh my God, Thanks for giving us this time as a new mom. I, I'm <laugh>, I know what that's like. So congrats again and thank you so much.
Erin (42:33):
Improve it pees. I am dead. This is my ghost. Liz is awesome and she is so talented and such a light, so honored that she came on right after coming back from maternity leave with her cute little baba Leo. So here's what I want you to think about. You know, I'd love to give you a tangible and some homework. The two questions that she said that leaders could give two team members to help them understand or help them to see what their big feelings are and to help them navigate those big feelings at work. Because it's 2022, about to be 2023, we are no longer hiding emotions and we are bringing our full selves to work. Those two questions are, number one, what is one thing I can do to better support you? And number two, what's a win and what's been challenging? Take either of those two questions and put them into motion for your team this week.
Erin (43:36):
I myself am going to take this question, what's a win and what's been challenging and really implement it. And I also love the one thing I can do to better support you because they have to answer with one thing. And it's so important not only to give feedback, but to receive feedback as a leader. So take these two questions. You can take one or both and really put them into motion with your teams this week. You know what I'm going to say? I am so shrinking proud of you. Keep failing, keep improving because this world needs that very special it that only you can bring. I'll see you here next week. Bye. Hey friend, did you enjoy today's show? If so, head on over to iTunes to rate and subscribe. So you never miss an episode. Now, did I mention that when you leave a five star review of the Improve It podcast, an actual team of humans does a happy dance? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's right. So leave a review for us on iTunes, screenshot it and send me an email at info learn to improve it.com. I'll send you a personalized video back as a thank you. Thanks so much for listening. Improve It Peeps. I'll see you next Wednesday.