Episode 209: Mom-Guilt, the Mental Load, and How to Reclaim Your Mental Well-Being as a Parent with Dr. Morgan Cutlip
Parenting is about as complicated and stressful as it gets, and Dr. Morgan Cutlip is here to free you from the guilt and help you reclaim your mental well-being by letting go of the noise we get from information overload.
In today’s episode, Erin and Dr. Morgan talk about what mom guilt is and what it feels like, what rest really means as a parent, and how our current parenting generation differs from previous ones.
If you or someone you know is a parent, this is the episode for you.
ICYMI – Your Post-Episode Homework: Share this show with a parent you know.
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Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 209 Transcription
Dr. Morgan (00:00):
We exist, especially women, especially moms, we exist in this disassociated state in life where we just move at such a fast momentum that we don't even know really who we are. We're not in touch with ourselves. And it's sort of, I feel like it's comes to life in the simplest of moments when somebody's like, Hey, how are you? And you're like, I'm good. Great, thanks. And if that person, maybe they know you a little bit better and they're like, no, really, how are you? And then we're like, we have to pause. And we go, I don't, I don't even know why, because we're just so disconnected. And so I think part of, part of what the answer is, is we have to know ourselves really well, and then we know what the practices will be that will move the needle. But I'll give you some practices 'cause that's so not satisfying to just say that <laugh>
Erin (00:52):
Improve it peeps, won't quit that day job. Hey everyone, I'm Erin Diehl. I'm so excited you're here. If you are new to the show, welcome. If you are joining us as an OG and prove itpa, welcome back. I am the founder and CEO of Improve It, an improv comedy expert, a top 1% podcast host, a new soon to be author and keynote speaker, but on soul. Okay, I just gave you my resume. Let me give you my soul res, I'm a mom, I'm a recovering perfectionist, turn failfluencer, and I'm your new director because every single day of your life is an improv scene. That's what we do here at the Improve It Podcast. We use improv and we use this rooted in comedy presence to help you be the highest version of yourself possible. We bring you all kinds of amazing guests so you can live up to your highest potential and live your life to the fullest.
Erin (01:59):
I have some housekeeping items before we get into today's show, but I have to tell you, this show is so good. We're talking about mom guilt, the mental load, and how you can reclaim your mental wellbeing as a parent. If you are a parent, if you know a friend who is a parent, if you aren't a parent, but you want to listen to tips on self-care, this episode is still for you. So stay tuned for that. Just a couple quick housekeeping reminders. My book, she wrote a book I see you, A Leader's Guide to energizing your team through Radical Empathy is available. I'm feeling like singing today. Y'all a little Doodle Do is available for pre-order.
Erin (02:48):
That was just like a commercial back in the eighties. I don't know why I felt that, but it, it felt that way. You can get the book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, wherever you listen or want to, no, you can't listen to it yet. It's not an audible yet, but you can get it wherever you find books. And lemme tell you the best news. Okay? Here is the best because you're the best. When you pre-order the book. I'm giving you a free gift, okay? You like gifts, I like gifts. Get your gifts on. Go to our new website, my new website, it's erin deal.com, and go put in your book receipt number. You can find your order number or your receipt number on your Amazon receipt page or on your Barnes and Noble receipt page. Put in that number. And we're gonna send you a Radical empathy workshop.
Erin (03:41):
It's a digital workshop for you, for free, for pre-ordering that book, baby. Okay? Now, while you're at it's errand deal.com, there's gonna be a spot for you to find our new meditation album. It is an album called I See You, the Meditation album, because it is built with the values and principles of the book. I see you in mind. There's eight tracks and each meditation is going to help guide you in some part of your day. You can get this@itseardeal.com. The best news is, my friend, it's 11 and 11 cents. 1111, that's an angel number. Go grab it at its ear deal com. And finally, if you missed last week's episode, y'all better go back. You better stop what you're doing. Stop it right now and listen. It's called Unlocking Your Potential. Four lessons from My Soul Sabbatical, episode 2 0 8. Go back and get those juicy tips all about Radical rest.
Erin (04:48):
Radical rest is this month's theme. We need all of it that we can get. And this show, episode 2 0 8, is packed full of tangible tips to get you a sabbatical too. Now let's get into today's show. We're keeping this theme of Radical Rest Alive, and we're talking to an amazing parent expert, Dr. Morgan tle, PhD in psychology and highly sought after relationship expert knows what it feels like to lose yourself and motherhood, and she's determined to help mothers navigate better throughout her career. She's helped hundreds of thousands of people worldwide learn how to form and maintain healthy relationships. Dr. Morgan has been featured in relation as a relationship expert with Good Morning America, teen Vogue, the New York Times Women's Health Magazine, mops International Ology and Flow, the number one hap in Health and Fitness. Her new book, love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself, is available now and you better believe that link is in the show notes. Let's get to improving it with Dr. Morgan, improve It podcast. Okay, Dr. Morgan, welcome to the show. I am so excited that you're here. I literally am thrilled.
Dr. Morgan (06:39):
Aw, thank you for having me. I'm excited for this. See where it goes.
Erin (06:42):
I know we're gonna, we're gonna play this out. And I'm, I'm like I told you, we have, we've had some mom experts. I shouldn't say that, but what I love is the angle that you're talking about, radical rest and radical self-care and love from this parenting side. So I, I am a parent. I know so many people listening to this show are also parents. And sometimes we have to parent ourselves first to, to really effectively parent others. And that's what I wanna talk to you about today. So let's, let's set an intention for the show. What is one word that you wanna get outta today
Dr. Morgan (07:24):
Or give that I wanna give? I feel like it's easier for me to say what I wanna give. Clarity. How about clarity?
Erin (07:32):
Oh, I love that word. That was my intention for the month of cover, by the way. Oh, yes, it was. And I love it. That's
Dr. Morgan (07:38):
Synchronicity, huh?
Erin (07:40):
I know. It was beautiful. And I feel clearer actually because of, it's amazing. So I love that. All right, well, we're our theme this month. We always have a monthly theme that goes in alignment with the show. And our theme this month is radical rest. What does radical rest mean to you?
Dr. Morgan (08:00):
Gosh. So, I mean, to even think about that as kind of a new concept to me, because I'm kind of like a microdose rest kind of gal <laugh>. So I'm like a radical rest. I think that's what my husband got this week when he laid in bed because he was sick <laugh>.
Erin (08:20):
And you're like, are you sick? Are
Dr. Morgan (08:22):
You sick? He's sick for real. He needed it. I feel like radical rest to me, and this is totally off the top of my head,
Erin (08:32):
Is
Dr. Morgan (08:32):
Sort of like that deep soul quenching, nourishing rest that you feel light after you feel like that je relaxed, stress-free, untethered, unburdened freedom, that that would come out of a radical rest. That's what I think of when you say that.
Erin (08:57):
Yeah, I love that. And I, I love the word freedom that you used that in there. Because for just, I know many women in particular, rest is not at the top of the priority list, <laugh>. It's not, it's like at the bottom of a laundry list of to-dos. So just in that theme of self-care, what,
Dr. Morgan (09:23):
How
Erin (09:24):
Would you describe self-care as it relates to radical rest? Like how w when you think of self-care, what is, what comes to mind?
Dr. Morgan (09:32):
Yeah, I mean, I wanna just add to what you're saying too, is like, I think women, women for women rest might be at the bottom of the list. And I think also women kind of roll their eyes at the idea of rest because we're like, when when are we doing that? Yeah. Whatcha talking about if I rest? I mean, I hear this all the time. If I rest, then everything goes out the window. The house is a mess though. Day doesn't move forward. There's no momentum to things. Like everything crashes down when I rest. And so in some ways I feel like we roll our eyes to the idea of rest. And so I think that part of how we find rest, find that true rest is through a redefining of self-care and what it looks like in our lives. And so I think of self-care, self-care more holistically.
Dr. Morgan (10:18):
And so a lot of times when we see self-care in social media or online or whatever, it's these, it's just like these lists of things to do. It's like, take a walk, take a bubble bath, I don't know, paint your nails. It's like these superficial, superficial physical things that we're told to do. And I think that self-care is actually more than just about our physical selves. It's about our mental selves. Think about how you can be laying down in bed resting, but your mind is busy, right? Like that's a physical state of rest, but you're actually not cognitively resting. So I think it's our mental selves, it's our emotional selves, it's our spiritual selves. If you have a practice around that, and it's our physical. And so self-care is attending our relational selves, it's attending to all these different aspects of self that really, I feel like blow open the opportunities to really find radical rest and to find care for ourselves and and the, and the type of care that's actually sustainable. Versus just like, you know, oh, we went, I went on a retreat and now I feel really good, but it lasts like a week. And then I'm right back in the crazy rhythm of my life where I'm just headed straight toward burnout again.
Erin (11:35):
Okay. This is like, I just had this topic of conversation literally over dinner with my best friend of 25 years. Because it's, what you're saying is self-care is consistency. It's small. It because this is, and I, and I love that because I know in your book you reference that like it's not just bubble paths, it's not just pedicures. It is beyond that. And it really, in my mind, when I used to think about self-care, I was like, oh, getting my nails done is self-care. That is not self-care. To me, that is maintenance.
Dr. Morgan (12:10):
I hate getting my nails done. It stresses me out. <Laugh>. Yeah, exactly.
Erin (12:14):
Yes. But I do it because it makes me feel better. Right? Right. I'm like, I do it because that is like, it's maintenance. But I'm like, while I'm there, I'm thinking about my to-do list. So what you're saying is, is sustainable practices, consistent practices that don't have to be so big, like going on a retreat, they're smaller things that we can do in our everyday lives. Can you give me some examples? Because I'm intrigued by this and I need to practice it my own self <laugh>. So this, sometimes I do it for the team. Okay, this one's for me, <laugh>. So what would you say, what are some simple, succinct, consistent practices?
Dr. Morgan (12:55):
So I will give you some specific ones, but I, I do like always give this disclaimer, which is that my approach is not prescriptive. Like if you want Yeah. To find practices, Google it and or go on Pinterest and find tons of lists of things that you can do. I feel like one of the practices that becomes important, and I I talk about this more in depth in my book, is that you have to know yourself really well. And when you know yourself well, you have this insight, you know, what practices are gonna move the needle for you. So like for some people losing themselves in a book is like the deepest, most radical rest they can get. And for others they're like, this is the a nightmare for me. So part of it is learning what works for you and the pathway to learning that is becoming connected to ourselves.
Dr. Morgan (13:41):
Again, we exist, especially women, especially moms, we exist in this disassociated state in life where we just move at such a fast momentum that we don't even know really who we are. We're not in touch with ourselves. And it's sort of, I feel like it's comes to life in the simplest of moments when somebody's like, Hey, how are you? And you're like, I'm good. Great, thanks. And if that person, maybe they know you a little bit better and they're like, no, really, how are you? And then we're like, we have to pause. And we go, I don't, I don't even know why, because we're just so disconnected. And so I think part of, part of what the answer is, is we have to know ourselves really well, and then we know what the practices will be that will move the needle. But I'll give you some practices. 'cause That's so not satisfying to just say that
Erin (14:33):
<Laugh>. No, no, no, no. And I, and I, I wanna just pause on that because that is, I mean, you literally just summed up a conversation I had with, I'm not gonna say who, what type of friend, because it's my best friend <laugh>. Like, you literally just summed up this conversation because we don't have, like a lot of us, myself included, for a very long time, never sat with ourselves. Yeah. We never made time to be still and to recognize what it is that we actually need or want or what gives us that rest. So I think that's okay. So that's step one. And once we've achieved that, how, what are some things that we could do consistently or, you know, what are, what are beyond the, what's beyond the bubble base?
Dr. Morgan (15:16):
Yes. I know you said something that makes me wanna go down another path, but I'll answer this question first.
Erin (15:21):
Okay. Okay. Okay. And then go down it.
Dr. Morgan (15:23):
No, first I'll answer this. So
Dr. Morgan (15:25):
One of the things that you can do is look for energy drains. So much I'll explain a concept that I think can be really empowering, but so much of what we engage in day to day, especially in motherhood just drains our energy. And then we like get to, it becomes all integrated. We get to the end of the day, we are grumpy, we lose our cool on our kids at tuck-in, and then we're like, oh, I'm such a terrible mom. It feeds the guilt, which then drains our energy even more. So we gotta look for drains. So let me explain how our energy works in psychology. This is called all sorts of things. So it's called willpowers, how it's talked about in the research ego depletion, there's all these sorts of, like, they church it up a bit, but it's just energy.
Dr. Morgan (16:11):
And the concept you need to understand is that every single day each of us wakes up with a certain amount of energy. The amount of energy you have is different than what I have. There are individual differences. So we all have different capacities of energy. Now, if you don't get a full night's sleep, you are already waking up with less energy. And I know we say sleep's important, and we roll our eyes and we're like, whatever. But it really is. And so you wake up with a certain amount, it varies by individual. And then through the day, as you regulate your emotions, as you make decisions, as you in, in like practice patience, as you manage something, as you are asking your kids to get your shoes on, as you sit in traffic, all of these things that are requiring that you don't lose your bind and like lose your crap.
Dr. Morgan (17:00):
You know, all of this uses up your energy through the day. A lot of us do not replenish. So we end the day in the red. So there's two approaches. One is to minimize the leaks. What are the drains? What, what can we try to cut out that is taking up this unnec, this energy unnecessarily. And then the other is how do we build in little moments to recharge through the day? So that's a really big one to pay attention to. There's so many. Another one is keeping promises to ourselves. Trying to give ones that you don't see everywhere else. When we keep a promise to ourselves, it actually exercises this energy, this willpower when we actually keep it because it reinforces our belief in ourself, our trust in ourself. Plus we get the added benefit of actually whatever we promised ourselves that we do.
Dr. Morgan (17:52):
Yeah. But when we break promises to ourselves, and we all have done this, and sometimes we do it in, in because we need to be flexible. So we have to be kind of discerning about how we break these promises. But when we break promises, we start to erode our belief in ourselves and our trust in ourselves, which feeds our, our self-concept, which then becomes more negative. We are like, we see ourselves as someone who's flaky, somebody who doesn't follow through, and we start to then engage in negative self-talk. All of that drains our energy <laugh>. So,
Erin (18:25):
Oh my God, God, it's, it's great. It starts to
Dr. Morgan (18:28):
All kind of work together. But the,
Erin (18:30):
The
Dr. Morgan (18:30):
Like takeaway on that one is if you're somebody where you're like, I'm so far gone that I try these promises, but I can't stick with them, make a very small, achievable promise, the smallest one and give yourself a win. We need sometimes that win to build momentum. I can't think of a better example, but you know, like when, if you're trying to like lose weight and then all of a sudden you like lose a couple pounds and then you're like, oh, this is no big deal because I've built that momentum. I've had that small win. There's better examples than weight loss, but I know that one is is a real one. So when you can build in these small wins, this will help you to further keep promises, make bigger ones and bigger ones, and be true, be true to your word to yourself. And that makes a big difference.
Erin (19:18):
I love it. So we're doing small wins and we're doing small moments of replenishing ourself because it's like, I was just thinking when you were the first point you were making about, we start off with energy, we wake up without, you know, with a less of a good night's sleep, and then we go about our day traveling. It made me think of travel. Like when you're <laugh> you're traveling for work, for even with kids, whatever, and you're going about your day, but then there's all those micro stressors within travel, and by the time you get to your destination, that's why I will always fly in the day early before any event I ever work because I'm like, I am so exhausted just from those micro stressors of getting there, that to actually have the energy to do the thing is impossible. And it's like that just, it really just made so much sense to me. And then the other piece I love that you mentioned is just those small promises. Exactly. When you were saying promises, the word small popped in my head. Like, make it, you know, small, make it small, because we've all made those promises where we feel horrible
Dr. Morgan (20:25):
When we
Erin (20:25):
Don't
Dr. Morgan (20:25):
Achieve them.
Erin (20:26):
And then again, that is so true that it's like spending energy, feeling bad about ourselves. <Laugh>. Okay. I love it. I love it. This is so great. I wanna, I love the, the thought that you have about, or not the thought, but the, the angle that you are coming with on this show is, is parenting, which we ha we don't talk a lot about. We talk about leadership, but there's so many parents, and I know there's so many reasons,
Dr. Morgan (20:52):
But
Erin (20:53):
If you could boil it down to one or two, why do parents feel so overwhelmed today? <Laugh>, I know there's like a variety, but if you could say like a summary, I know our parents, like my parents, they had
Dr. Morgan (21:10):
Their own
Erin (21:10):
Sense of overwhelm.
Dr. Morgan (21:11):
Parenting
Erin (21:12):
Is overwhelming, but I feel like our generation has a very particular, like a very tricky situation that we're all navigating.
Dr. Morgan (21:20):
Yeah, I think so too. I, I think it's a number of things, but if I just give you like the quickest answer, I think that we live in an age of information overload and it has perpetuated an intensity to our parenting that didn't exist for previous previous generations. So there's information overload in lots of different domains. One in particular is that there's all of these experts that exist now on social media. I mean, I'm part of that culture try to be really careful about how I share information. But a lot of times this information is presented with like the smallest context in mind and it doesn't apply to everybody. So as a parent or a mom who's new to this, or even not that new to this and struggling with something with their kid, they go online, they're getting all of this information from all of these experts, and then it starts to contradict or it doesn't work properly for your child. You start to feel like a couple of things. You one start to feel like the answer is external and you've gotta go out and find it, which is exhausting. I know. I've been down the rabbit holes
Erin (22:29):
More energy expended. Exactly. Okay.
Dr. Morgan (22:31):
And like searching and wondering and self-questioning and all of these things. I think another thing is it feels like if it's not working for you or your child, that there's potentially something wrong with you or your kid or the both of you. And so that can feel really difficult. And so I think this piece of it has really intensified or experience in parenting where we become almost paralyzed in certain moments. Because we're so worried about inflicting these microtraumas on our kids where we're like, oh my gosh, if I don't phrase this right or if I don't, don't like, comment on their picture the right way, I'm going to raise a codependent kid. You know, like, we're so aware of stuff that we are I think, anxious in parenting and walking on eggshells. I think too, there's just like this added layer, which I feel like our parents' generation didn't exist as much.
Dr. Morgan (23:24):
And I think, you know, there's, this is not a, a slam on them. I think that they were doing the best they could. And every generation sort of has different goals when it comes to parenting. But I think our generation is really about raising emotionally intelligent children, which is a lot more exhausting, honestly. It's a more exhausting to hold all the space, you know, old space for their emotions. It's like, oh my gosh, their emotions are about ridiculous things sometimes. And I think too, this heightened awareness of like the fragility of the human experience has like entered into the collective, I don't know what conversation where we're now like, oh no, you know, if I get it wrong this one time, this might stick with my kid forever because
Erin (24:12):
I remember
Dr. Morgan (24:13):
This one thing that stuck with me. And so again, it's just this intensity, this hyper vigilance that creates so much room for getting it wrong and so much room for a lot of anxiety in our parenting.
Erin (24:26):
That's so good. That's so good. And you're, you're like totally, I, I didn't know what you were gonna say, <laugh>. And I feel like that is like the perfect answer because I mean, my pa you know, my mom even just simple things like wedding planning or planning a baby shower, she's like, our parties never looked like yours because we didn't have Pinterest and magazines were like, not a huge deal. Everything is heightened. And she, and you know, even the culture of mental health, which I personally love, that our generation has resources at the ready, you know, we don't have to, there, there's the internet, there's not, we don't have to go to like a book or an encyclopedia. We can go literally in the palm of our hands, have questions answered. And I think for our parents' generation, there was less of that. I'm just gonna speak from my own experience. Like my, my parents definitely have never been to therapy, whereas like my brother and I, like we are in therapy. You know, we took that therapy and, and I just think that it's less all of the things that you mentioned are so true because we just, we have so much more anxiety surrounding every move. Yeah. Than I feel like they did.
Dr. Morgan (25:46):
I mean, I think about, so I, I asked my mom once, what did you do when you didn't know what to do with us when we were little? Like you didn't know how to handle a situation. She's like, I called my friend and just did what they did. And I was like, but what if your friend was crazy or wrong? And she's like, I don't know. Just, you know. And I think that, you know, there's like light and dark to the all these things, right? Like this information age is like, there's so many blessings because it's so many good things. And then also it's like too much of a good thing kind of becomes a little bit bad. So I think there's different sides to this, but there's something that's really like promotes a feeling of security and safety when it's like, this is the way you do it and there's one way and it's simple and you're not weighing out all of these other options. And we're, that's where we're at. And like, this is a silly example, but so our daughter, oh, I promised her a hamster.
Erin (26:42):
I saw this on your social media by the way, and I think it's hilarious. Yeah.
Dr. Morgan (26:46):
Oh my gosh. Like, so I told her like part of the requirements or whatever it, I'm trying to like promote some executive functioning stuff, like organization and taking her own initiative. And so part of it is like she needs to research it. How do, what do you do? What little did I know that there is a whole expert world in, in the topic of hamsters and talk about intensive parenting. I mean, we are now like my si sister at a hamster growing up, it had a tiny cage, had a tunnel system and a plastic ball that rolled around. Well, plastic balls, you might as well just like pee is gonna show up at your doorstep and like take you to like, you can't do these things. And you know what I'm talking about when the hamster rolls around on the floor, <laugh>, yes. I had it. My hamster pepper was gonna
Erin (27:30):
Fall around my house constantly. It was so fun. Oh my god. It's like, no. Yeah. So
Dr. Morgan (27:34):
It's, it's been really an interesting experience. 'cause I'll say to her 'cause the lady said, don't wake your, I have a point to this. Don't wake your hamster up to play with them during the day, even though they're nocturnal. So like, what? You never play with your hamster.
Erin (27:49):
And
Dr. Morgan (27:50):
I, I said to her, I was like, well, you gotta be able to like enjoy your pet. She goes, but mom, it's gonna stress it out. And I was like this. So now my daughter is the intensive parent soon to be parent of a hamster <laugh>. But my, like, the thing that it's kind of opened up for me is just all of the avenues at which we can become obsessive about getting it right, whether it's a hamster, whether it's parenting, and then you wanna like explode the parenting one out and it's like what you feed your kids, what you bathe your kids with, the type of clothes are there fire retardants in your clothes? The type of education you provide them, the type of way you educate them about, you know, we, we now gotta educate them about like all the nuances in our culture and all these things. So it just, there is so much opportunity in parenting to be overwhelmed about all the things we're supposed to know and be expert in, in order to really care for our kids well. And I think that is just like a whole new world in parenting.
Erin (28:49):
Oh my god. Yeah. You just took, I like felt all those things as you were saying them. And it made my heart race a little bit <laugh>, I'm not gonna lie. Sorry. Because it's so, it's overwhelming. No, it's lie. It's like, that's it, that's how we feel. That was the inside of my brain. Okay. This is a topic I just wanna add, you know, I'm just gonna stack stressor on stressor because I'm a mom. Okay. And I know I have these conversations all the time with my friends and it doesn't have to be a mom, like parents, whatever you are, any mom, whatever. I do find, particularly though with mothers in particular, mom guilt is a thing. Can you define what, like what is your definition of mom guilt? Because I, I'm curious to hear this because I know when I feel, feel it, but I don't know if I've ever clearly defined it.
Dr. Morgan (29:44):
Okay, so I have a whole breakdown of guilt. So let's define guilt. Guilt is a feeling that comes up when you've violated some standard or value you deem important or you hold yourself to guilt is actually not a bad thing. I feel like, because we so often talk about mom guilt, we're like, oh, guilt. But actually guilt is a motivator. It's sort of the, it's sort of like what shows that we have a conscience, you know, like we, we know right and wrong and we, we have some moral code we hold ourselves to, so it's not actually inherently a bad thing. So there's two types of guilt. There's deserved guilt and undeserved guilt and deserved guilt is what's the helpful guilt. And so an example of this is during my book launch, I don't have any help. Like I, I, I am like a one woman show and it's stupid, but that's how it is for now.
Dr. Morgan (30:37):
And so, and I only work a couple days a week, so I'm launching my first book. This book is the utmost important thing to me. It is like, I can't, I'm not gonna say it's a child, but like the content is so close to my heart. So I wanted to make sure I left this book launch being like I left it all in the field, like I could do no more to support this book. And what that meant was I was on my phone so much and I hate being on my phone. I'm already on it more than I want because of social media. And so I felt guilty. There were times where I was home with the kids. My husband travels a lot, so we get a lot of alone time home with my kids and they're talking to me and I'm doing the thing where I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, ha ha uhhuh, that thing that I absolutely despise. My guilt was conjured up. It was deserved. And it prompted me to make a behavioral change. My phone went in the so <laugh>, I think I put it in the silverware drawer and then I was like, hopefully I remember where I put it. And, and practice more presence. And so I do want, do want parents to know that sometimes your guilt is actually sending you an important reminder that you need to make a behavioral change so that you're living more in line with your values. Okay, now let's talk about mom guilt. Okay. I
Erin (31:55):
I received that. You receive it? Yes, because that, that I received that because I, I'm like she's got it help. Okay. Okay. Alright. Let's talk about mom guilt because this is like, I'm here for that too. That makes sense, mom. But I wanna hear the mom part. Mom guilt
Dr. Morgan (32:08):
Is the unhelpful or undeserved guilt. And I think where that comes from is when we have expectations or standards for ourselves that go to the absolute extreme. So I call them impossible standards that we can actually never really meet consistently, but we continue to hold ourselves to our, and so let me give you an example. An example would be something like, if you're a stay at home mom, since I'm a stay at home mom, I should never need any help since this is all that I do. I shouldn't need my partner to do much of anything for me. And I know they sound ridiculous and that's impossible. Standards usually sound ridiculous. And so when we examine them, when we define them, we can then examine them and make some changes and do something about them for me. So one that I had to really work on, so I work part-time and when my kids were really little I've dealt with it since then.
Dr. Morgan (33:07):
I used to feel like my work time was my alone time. So I like used up my quota of alone time while I was working and therefore I couldn't actually ask for any other time outside of that to like, take care of me because I would be 'cause why? Because a good mom, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> doesn't leave her kids because that was something that was operating in the background. So the way to get to these impossible standards in, in motherhood to really get to the root of them. If you answer that question, a good mom blank. That's one way of getting 'em when you start just kind of filling 'em in. Good mom doesn't leave her kids. A good mom doesn't work outside the home. A good mom, like all of the things that you've absorbed over the years about creating this template of what a good mom looks like, put it on the table and see if it actually works for your life and your circumstances, and then start to revise them. I had to do a ton of work in this area, but I feel guilty. Only when I should. No, I don't feel any of that extra mom guilt stuff.
Erin (34:08):
Okay. Because I resonate with that so much. And I'm sure so many people listening also feel that way because I feel most people listening to this are working parents. And I have a ton of friends who are stay-at-home moms and I'm like, your job is harder than any job I've ever had. And so my guilt comes when I have to travel for work. Yeah.
Dr. Morgan (34:33):
Which
Erin (34:33):
I'm a keynote speaker. I have to travel like once or twice a month
Dr. Morgan (34:37):
And it's like,
Erin (34:39):
Ugh, that guilt in the back of my mind. But I'm like, I'm a better mom because I get to do what I love and show him that I am passionate and I can do many things. And so that took a really long time. I'm better about it now, but I I like that thought of telling mys, go ahead, tell me what you're, 'cause I need, I need a, I need expert advice. Yeah.
Dr. Morgan (35:02):
So who's he with when you travel?
Erin (35:04):
So we have an amazing nanny. She is part of our family. And so she's here 30 ish hours a week. And then my husband will always be, if, if he's traveling too, 'cause he also travels, then my parents live close and they'll come and stay and he's super close with them.
Dr. Morgan (35:19):
Okay. So there's this mindset it's, it's part of like the bigger term called intensive parenting, intensive mothering. Really. this isn't my term, this comes from an, a researcher named Sharon Hayes. But there are five components that make up this bigger word or whatever phrase of intensive parenting. And one of 'em is essentialism. Essentialism is basically says that moms are the best caregivers for their kids. It's a belief system that a lot of moms really hold near. And dear moms are the number one caregivers for their kids. They're the best ones for the job. And maybe sometimes we are, or maybe we always are, I'm not sure. But when we really hold that belief near and dear, that will stir up guilt when anyone else is involved in caring for our kids. If I'm not doing it, I'm subjecting my kid to second rate care even when it's, when it's our partners and they're father figures, right? Like we're even like, oh, not as good as mom. So sorry buddy. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry I'm leaving you
Erin (36:22):
With these. Yeah.
Dr. Morgan (36:23):
Like less equipped people. And I think, you know, part of part of undoing the guilt around this is getting to a place where you can acknowledge there is value to the diversity of parenting experiences your child has. The way that my husband shows up with our kids is very different than how I show up. I'm always like, let's talk about this or process that. And it's super annoying sometimes probably how I am where he's like, Mr. Fun and I can be fun too. But like, they get a different experience with him and that just broadens their, their life, their perspective, their, their whole experiences growing up. And so as you start to like unpack that guilt and understand some of these understand some of these things, you can start to sort of rewrite that narrative in a way that actually is meaningful. It's not like slapping a bandaid on it and be like, don't feel guilty. It's like, no, this is valuable for, for our son in a number of ways. Let me articulate what these are and do I believe these to be true in my heart? And when I do, the guilt melts away.
Erin (37:30):
It does. Ugh.
Dr. Morgan (37:32):
You are
Erin (37:32):
Right. Sorry. Keep going, keep going.
Dr. Morgan (37:33):
No, I'm done. I'm done. I've said a lot <laugh>. No, you are so good.
Erin (37:39):
It's so good.
Dr. Morgan (37:40):
I'm like, ugh.
Erin (37:41):
Because you know what it I, I tell myself I'm so, you know, okay. Just all the things. There's so much guilt that every mom I know. I mean, not every mom, I'm speaking my own experience, but I experienced being a working parent, having a nanny who is his best friend. And one time he called the nanny mom and when he was, and I was like, ah,
Dr. Morgan (38:03):
Yeah
Erin (38:04):
That sucked. But that was years ago. And that, you know, different circumstances and I'm very grateful that he has this village Yes. Of people, this community of people. And I, I've gotten to a better place with it, but I know many working parents who feel that guilt. And it's mostly women. Yes. I've, I've tried, I've talked to a couple guys, but not really. It's more, it's more our, our gender and, and more of our internal, internal, like, it's like this tether and if I'm gone for more than two nights, it's like, oh my God, I feel the tether. Like I want to be back home.
Dr. Morgan (38:44):
The anxiety to get back quickly.
Erin (38:47):
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Morgan (38:48):
I know that place. Oh my God. So it's interesting. So my husband travels, he's gone right now. He travels every single week for work just about. And it's funny 'cause now that the kids are getting a little bit older, he's, he's actually feeling I think a little bit of more, I think he is feeling a little bit of guilt, but early on I remember asking him, don't you feel, do you, do you feel guilt? Because
Erin (39:09):
I was like
Dr. Morgan (39:10):
Paralyzed by my guilt. I'd be like, go out to run to the, to the grocery store. And I was like, I gotta get back as fast as possible. And so I was like, do you feel guilt? And he's like, I don't know, I guess a little, which I'm like, no, you don't. If you, if you don't
Erin (39:21):
Know if you do, yeah, then
Dr. Morgan (39:22):
You don't. And he said, I guess I just think that it's, you know, I'm doing what I have to do to provide for my family. And so as progressive as our society is there, we have so deeply ingrained in us these, these like norms about what each gender is supposed to do. And part of our storyline as women and specifically as moms is that it's our duty to self-sacrifice to care for our relationships. It's our duty to martyr ourselves for the higher calling of motherhood. And so when we act incongruent with some of this stuff, we feel like we are like abandoning our true calling and that's gonna stir up my god guilt.
Erin (40:08):
Yes. Whereas
Dr. Morgan (40:09):
For men, I think a lot of times it's like my duty is to provide safety,
Dr. Morgan (40:13):
Security, financial stability. And when I'm doing that, I'm checking those boxes and everything else is extra. And I know I'm being really reductionistic. So I don't, I'm not trying <laugh> like offend anybody, but I think in these are some of these undercurrents that are going on in our lives that deeply affect how we feel in parenthood and what guilt shows up and what guilt doesn't show up. And so I, I think for men, when they're providing, they feel like the higher order of responsibility is met. And so that guilt is just not as prevalent for them in the same way as it is for us.
Erin (40:49):
So good. So good. Okay. I could talk to you about this forever, <laugh>, and it's, so this was like therapeutic in a way because I feel I've had this conversation with so many of my friends who are moms. Like we've talked about it at length, especially my friends who have to travel like I do. And I feel this was really, really helpful to recenter and I hope it serves so many people and you're doing such great work and sharing that with the, with with
Dr. Morgan (41:18):
Everyone. And so
Erin (41:19):
Let me ask you this, this is my final question that I ask every guest. We say at Improve It. That it is the thing that purpose, the it that you're called here to do. What is Morgan's it? I
Dr. Morgan (41:34):
Have a hard, I could talk for hours about other stuff, but when I'm asked questions like this, I find them so difficult to answer. What is the it?
Erin (41:46):
And that's okay. Take some time. This is the big one. Well,
Dr. Morgan (41:49):
I don't wanna get like, I mean, I don't mind getting personal, but I feel like I'm in this place professionally of where I feel like I have to step into things that I'm afraid to do that feel really uncomfortable because otherwise I'm just, my business isn't gonna go anywhere <laugh>. So I feel like my, yeah, yeah. I feel like my purpose is to educate and to help people help people have new language for their common experiences as well as practical ways out. And I feel like my purpose right now is to step into that more boldly or else I'm not gonna reach as many people as I want to. And that's and that's what's really on my heart is I wanna help people change lives and I would like to use my voice to do that, but I can't be, can't be scared to do that.
Erin (42:41):
That's it. I, oh my gosh. Well, okay. And speaking of that voice, your voice, your voice wrote a book called Love Your, love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself. Yes. And so we will put that in the show notes, but tell everybody where they can hang out with you, how they can find you, all that good stuff.
Dr. Morgan (43:00):
Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram, which is Dr. Morgan. Cut Lipp all one word. That's also my website, just Dr. Morgan cut lip.com. My book is Anywhere you buy books. Amazon, Barnes Noble, indie bookstores. And I'm actually starting up some grouch intensive group. Did I say Grouch? <Laugh> Group coaching for couples. I just, maybe I made a new
Erin (43:28):
Word. Maybe that's what I call it. Gro coaching. Come about gro coaching. David, you're grouchy and you're agro. Come over, come over Gros Group coaching
Dr. Morgan (43:36):
For couples, which I'm really excited about to finally get back into working more like in a live setting with people to help them improve their relationship. So you can find out about all that on my website.
Erin (43:50):
Oh, well it is an honor to have talked with you and I feel like, I feel like your intention of clarity came full circle. I feel, thank you. I feel like I feel pretty clear. I'm like, well, I'm looking at mom guilt differently.
Dr. Morgan (44:04):
Okay. <laugh>, I'm looking at the way I show up differently.
Erin (44:06):
I've got some new self-care. So I just thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us and coming on this show. And I gotta tell you this, you are, you are living out your it. Thank you. I mean, we found you, my team found you on Instagram. Thank you. You're doing great work. So definitely follow her. We'll put all of it in the show notes and just continue to spread this message 'cause it's so important. Thank you.
Dr. Morgan (44:27):
Thank you. Thanks for having me
Erin (44:30):
Improve it peeps. I am still just gathering all of my thoughts from today's show because it's been a minute since we've had a relationship or a parent expert on this show. And the insight that Morgan gave us today is something that I'm gonna take into my own life and I hope that you can take into yours or send to a friend who you know is struggling. Mom, Gail is real. So is the mental load of parenting. So is the mental load of losing ourselves because we are caregivers. So here is your homework from today. All right? This is it. This is all I'm gonna give you. Share this show with a mother or a parent who you know who is struggling because mom guilt, lemme tell you, numeral uno right here in terms of guilty, okay? She's, she's guilt in herself all day long. Share this episode with somebody who you know could really benefit from it.
Erin (45:35):
And, and send it with love. You know, don't say, I know you feel the mom guilt. Here you go. Say, Hey, this episode really stuck out to me. I listened to it and I know it could brighten your day. Give it a listen because it's so good. She's so good. Follow her on Instagram. Make sure you leave a review, please. Those five stars go such a long way. That's all you have to do. Just hit the five stars bottom of iTunes and then make sure you go back and listen to episode 2 0 8 for lessons from my sabbatical because I'm telling you right now, this month's theme of radical rest is something that I needed in my own life. And so I know it could be helpful to you, my friends. Check the show notes for all the links mentioned in today's show. I wanna give you a big round of applause for showing up for yourself today. Maybe this was a radical rest moment for you. Maybe you took a walk and put on this show and it gave you some guidance that and clarity that you needed. There's that word again, clarity. I'm just so proud of you. So I want you to keep failing. Keep improving because this world needs that special it that only you can bring. I'll see you next time.
Erin (46:58):
Improve, improve it.