Episode 67: Your Permission Slip To Break the Mold of Old School Leadership with Madison Butler
It’s that time of the week, improve it! Fam! New episode Wednesday with inspirational guest, Madison Butler!
Authenticity is at the root of this episode, and today you’ll hear about...
What it means to be a recovering recruiter
Madison’s views on conventional leadership and how she broke the mold and became the blue-haired unicorn
How to show up more authentically to your team and to yourself!
Enjoy and don’t forget to leave us a review!
Connect with Madison Butler:
Madison Butler is a New Englander at heart but moved to Austin in 2017. Her work is focused around creating equitable spaces and creating scalable strategies to achieve psychological safety. She is an outspoken advocate for mental health, destigmatizing trauma, DEI and the ability to be "human at work". She is passionate about facilitating hard conversations through storytelling, data and tough empathy.
Madison is committed to deconstructing the status quo and rebuilding corporate America, one organization at a time. Her mission is to ensure that no one ever feels like corporate spaces were not made for them, and they can live, work, and exist out loud.
She is a start-up enthusiast and is passionate about building inclusive teams from the ground up with early-stage companies. Madison is committed to helping change the narrative around what it looks like to be “human at work”, and hoping to help alleviate unconscious bias in corporate America.
Connect with Erin:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
Episode 67 Transcription
Erin (00:00):
Are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new, innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers, team-building exercises and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out? Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of this same old dry, boring leadership books and icebreakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv edutainer, failfluencer and professional zombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. And this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building effective communication, networking, presentation, skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast!
Erin (01:34):
Improve it! Family. Oh my goodness. You are in for a huge treat today my friends. First and foremost, I am so excited for our guest today. She is somebody I've been wanting to have on this show for so long and in true and prove it slash failed at fashion, I of course had a technical fail today. So my microphone, I always record on just completely stopped working. And I bought this new fancy smancy microphone, which I'm in the process of getting set up. But of course, wasn't set up in time. So I'm coming to you from my Britney Spears headset today. So it may sound a bit different than your typical show with that said, there is a couple of swear words in this show. So if you've got little ones running around, give them some earmuffs or pop in your earbuds, however you were in for such a treat because today I'm here with a DEI truth-teller, HR changemaker, builder of inclusive cultures, startup enthusiast, recovering recruiter, the one, the only Madison Butler. Now, if you are on LinkedIn and you are not following Madison Butler run, don't walk to the follow button. Here is a quick rundown on Madison. So she's a new Englander at heart, but she now lives in Austin, Texas, and she's been there since 2017. She focuses her work around creating equitable spaces and creating scalable strategies to achieve psychological safety. She is an outspoken advocate for mental health de-stigmatizing trauma DEI, and the ability to be human at work. She is passionate about facilitating hard conversations through storytelling, data and tough empathy. And you will see, and to hear some of these stories today, oh man, this interview is so jam packed. We talk about how she became so authentic, how she got to be so authentic on LinkedIn, not only on LinkedIn, but also in the companies that she's working for.
Erin (03:46):
We talk about what it means to be this recovering recruiter. And we talk about her views of conventional leadership and the actual story on how she became the blue hair unicorn, which if you follow her, you will see that is her title, blue hair unicorn. So we talk a lot about the permission slip of breaking this old school style of leadership. And if you are a leader listening to today's show and you want to show up more authentically to the people that you lead and to yourself, keep listening my friends. This show is so good. She's committed to deconstructing the status quo and she's committed to rebuilding corporate America one organization at a time, you will hear that as we talk about what her it is or how she wants to improve it. It is so, so interesting and so jam packed. So listen in, as we talk with the one, the only Madison Butler. Enjoy!
Erin (04:57):
Okay. Madison Butler. I am dying on the inside. I told you this before I hit record. Thank you so much for being our first guest on the improvement podcast.
Madison (05:08):
Oh gosh. Thanks for having me. Sorry that my schedule is so wild that it took so long for us to connect.
Erin (05:14):
Um I love that your schedule is so wild cause you're doing great things in this world. So wherever you are, good things are following. And if you, I introed this into the beginning of the show, but if you haven't found Madison Butler on LinkedIn yet, do yourself a favor, pause this show, go to the LinkedIn app, give her a follow. She spits fire. So Madison, I want you to tell the what we call the improve it! Family. What is one fun fact about you that we couldn't find online? So from your bio, your LinkedIn profile, what's a fun fact that we should know about Madison Butler?
Madison (05:56):
I have five dogs and a cat.
Erin (05:58):
Stop. Can I get the names of all five dogs?
Madison (06:02):
Yes. so we have Dolly, Bobby, Finnegan, Potato and Darby. Sorry. There's so many. Sometimes I forget how many we have and then my cat is my cat is Tom Noodle.
Erin (06:15):
Stop it. Okay. Wait, tell me where potato came from. Cause that is just the best. I was almost going to name my dog tater tot, so, okay. Tell me about potato.
Madison (06:25):
So it's, it's like kind of a happy, but also kind of a sad story. So a couple of years ago, my partner Spencer, so you'll also probably learn in this. I have two partners, but Spencer is the one I'm talking about in this instance. We were driving and it was the night before Thanksgiving. So nothing's open and we're driving into our neighborhood and we just see this stray dog, like running in the street. And if you know me, like I have just like a stray dog magnet. I found stray dogs since I was little. I literally probably find five to seven a year and I've always been that way. And so we get her in the car, I bring her to the vet. She doesn't have a microchip, obviously nothing's open because it's the night before Thanksgiving. And so we were like, okay, well she'll just hang out at the house till Friday. And then I'll, I'll bring her to, you know, Austin animal center, you know, and we were at the vet. So like the vet looked at her and was like, you know, she's a little skinny, but nothing, nothing big going on. She gave birth in my office on Thanksgiving to one single puppy. And so we were like, okay, now the universe has gifted us a puppy. And I don't really feel like I can bring her to the shelter because she won't survive. And so we were trying to think of like Thanksgivingy names. And so we named them Potato and Tater Tot.
Erin (07:41):
Okay. I would have said, this is a, this is a match made in heaven. I am dying right now because I really was going to name my dog tater to I'll tell you his name later, but this is sad yet also amazing.
Madison (07:52):
Well, so I mean the sad part is tater tot was a lovely little puppy and she was so great, but obviously it wasn't birthed under like the healthiest circumstances. You know, her having only one puppy tells me there wasn't, she wasn't very healthy in general. And she ended up passing away about a year after being born from liver failure. But that being said, we do still have potato, tater tot was very loved, very happy. It was literally like one day she was fine the next day she wasn't. So I do have a house full of rescues, a house full of misfits. So we do end up having a lot of sad stories here because I typically take an older dogs. Right now we do have Finnegan who is six months old, but he has epilepsy. So it's always like, there's always something going on at my house. Potato is like, potato is now like almost a hundred pounds. So she is no longer the skinny dog that I found, you know, two and a half years ago.
Erin (08:42):
Good. Okay. This, this makes me so happy. I'm so happy, but I'm also sad for tater tot and I'm happy. Potato is KA is like alive and well, okay. Madison. I like to keep it real with the improve it! Fam. We had a technical, so we're back. Are you back? I'm here. We're doing this, we're doing this thing. Okay. So we, we found out our fun fact about potato. Well, our sad fact about tater tot and fun fact about these five dogs and your cat. And I love that. I mean, this is so crazy. Do you live, where do you live? I don't even know where you live.
Madison (09:18):
Outside of Austin. So I'm actually fun fact. I'm an introvert by nature. So I actually live outside the city because the city puts me into like sensory overload. So I live Northwest of Austin out on the lake. So I do have, you know, a pretty decent sized yard and everyone's kind of got their own rooms. They do have a pretty, a pretty good setup. And to be honest, like the potato and Tater tot story is not even like out of the dogs in this house. It's not even like the craziest dog story that I've got.
Erin (09:47):
Oh, okay. So everybody has their own rooms. This is exciting. We have a lot of yard to run and play in. So things, this is so fun because I love watching and listening to, or reading. I should say the stories that you put on LinkedIn, and this is something that I never knew. And now I'm so happy that I do. So I want to kind of switch over to that because like I said, unless you've been hiding your feed from yourself, you have got to find Madison Butler on LinkedIn. And what drew me to you as I'm sure so many people is just your honesty, your vulnerability, and truthfully your tell it like it is mentality when it comes to showing up as a human being and tackling things like racism and the status quo. So I want to start with what made you start doing these mini blogs on LinkedIn and when did you start doing this?
Madison (10:47):
Oh gosh. So it's definitely been a journey. I definitely haven't been as like coming in hot as I am now, but to be clear, I'm very much I'm from the east coast. I am east coast through and through. I have always been I'm going to tell you exactly like it is, I don't have time or the need to like fluff things up. So that's kind of like ingrained in my DNA and in my personality, however, a couple of years ago I was working for a startup and I had this leader who was really great at LinkedIn. And he very much takes the same approach as I do. He's a white man in sales. However, like his approach is very similar to mine. Like he just doesn't, he doesn't give a shit. And so when I had started posting content, he had basically said like, Hey, your content is like, cool, but it's kind of boring. And it's not really a representation of who you are. Why aren't you being, you know, real? And I was like, well, cause I like being employed.
Madison (11:36):
So that's why. And he was like, you know, you're not doing yourself justice by not being real. And he was like, the people who are going to, you know, value your content and learn from your content are the people who need you to be real. And so I started really writing you know at the time about recruiting and why recruiting was broken. But then when I started taking like steps back into this more holistic lens of why recruiting was broken, I was like, oh, gosh. Cause everything's broken. And so I started writing about it, but I started doing that thing where I was really nervous because the thing I've learned is like people on the internet suck. So I started doing that thing where, you know, when you send like a spicy text message, like when you were going to tell your mom, like I'm going to be late for curfew, and then you just like throw your phone because he didn't see the answer.
Madison (12:19):
That's basically what I would do. I would like write some spicy content, shut my laptop and be like, okay, I'm going to go do the dishes or like, I'm going to go sleep or I'm just gonna go for a walk because I don't want to see what happens after that. And so I started just getting myself into the habit of doing it. Linkedin didn't come very naturally to me, it felt really weird to like bear like my true self on LinkedIn originally. And so I had to really set goals for myself. Initially it was like, I'm going to connect with 10 new people a day. I'm going to connect with five new pieces of content today. And I'm going to write something of my own three times a week, which really led to at one point it was five times a week. And now it's like, if I've got a thought, I'll put it on LinkedIn. And if I don't have a thought, then I won't. And you know, the funny thing for me is people always, oh my God, how long does it take you to write your content? And I'm always like three and a half minutes. And sometimes Canva takes me about five.
Erin (13:06):
Wow. And do you create your own canvas? I wanted to ask you that.
Madison (13:09):
I do!
Erin (13:12):
What! Okay. You're also a graphic designer.
Madison (13:15):
Yeah! Someone asked me who's the artist. Oh, I am not. I am so like visually, not like a jam. Like I have now. I moved into my house like a year ago and I still haven't painted because the idea of like, I like visualizing it overwhelms me, so I'm not visual, but I do, I do do some things on Canva and so on and say, it was like, oh my gosh, who is your artist? And I was like, Canva, I have a subscription.
Erin (13:38):
Do you know what I literally thought? I'm like, she has an amazing graphic design team. Like I, I knew your content was you, but I have looked at your picture, like you post like these awesome Canva graphics. And as a, as a recovering perfectionist over here, I, I had to outsource that because I cannot, like, I don't have a visual bone in my body right now. So I think what you're doing is perfect and don't stop. But it's so interesting because to know that's where you started from is I would think a big, big piece of what the improve it! Audience needs to hear. This show used to be called failed it! As you know, Madison, you were going to come on the failed podcast and now it's improve it. But a lot of what leaders and our audience is made up of a lot of leaders in corporate America. And what a lot of leaders struggle with is showing up authentically showing up as their true selves. That's why we love improv as a teaching tool to help people remove those hypothetical masks. So it's so funny. I feel like my whole life I've been teaching people remove that mask that you wear to work, but you know, in 2020 and 2021 put the one that you to like overcome this pandemic on, but take off the mask that you're wearing and show up as your true self.
Erin (14:57):
So for you, for, for me to sit here and hear Madison Butler say that she was afraid and you would shut your laptop down and go do the dishes. And, and now you just seem like you just give it, you just don't even think about what shifted, like, how did you move from this fear? Like afraid of putting yourself out there mentality to doing it every like, you know, three or four times a week.
Madison (15:25):
Yeah so I think for me, it was having to learn the lesson that like, no matter what I do, whether I say the right things or I say the wrong things, or I say exactly the thing that's in my brain, someone's going to hate it. For me, it's always been like the wildest ride when I post something and I'm like, gosh, that wasn't spicy at all. That was like, just like common sense. And someone then like sends me a death threat. So I've kind of learned that no matter what I say, someone's going to be mad. So I might as well say the thing that means the most to me, because at the end of the day, like I have to be my priority. Other people's feelings can not be my priority, especially when there are people on the internet who don't pay my bills. So for me, that, that was the shift in mentality was like, I needed to show up for me. I didn't need to show up for the company I was working for the boss I had because all of those things will change. You will not always have the same boss. You may not always have the same title, but what I will always have as me and the person that I am. And so the thing that I can do that is most helpful to me and my mental health is being real about the things that I'm feeling, the things that I'm experiencing and the way that I navigate.
Madison (16:30):
And it took me a really long time to get there. Like something like 25 years, I have an article that's called, you know, waking up black at 25. And like, I mean that I really did not understand or choose to look in the mirror. And it was intentional because I thought leaning into whiteness was the only way to be successful. And it took me a really long time to unpack the societal standards that come with being a black woman.
Erin (16:55):
Man, I have to say the vulnerability that you put out there has helped so many people. And I have a community on LinkedIn too. And I see a lot of my community liking your posts. And it's so refreshing to hear you say these things that you're showing up for you, right? You have to show up for you. You had to look in the mirror, you had to, you had to find this in yourself and then giving that gift of finding yourself to the world because you reached people across the world, like your posts, aren't just in the U S people from across the world are resonating with your content.
Erin (17:34):
Or like you said, perhaps sending death threats, which I want to get into in a little bit here. The vulnerability that you've given the world is so amazing and refreshing. And it's, it's actually very humbling to hear it because I think what happened in 2020 was everyone sort of took a step back and re-evaluated their lives. We had a health pandemic, we had a social and social injustice pandemic. We had two pandemics in this world and your voice being so loud on LinkedIn helped so many people get through those times. So thank you for finding that woman at 25 and looking in the mirror because we need you. Okay. Keep going, please keep going.
Madison (18:17):
It's funny that you say that because at the beginning of the pandemic, I was actually building a house and I was building a house in a neighborhood that I totally wasn't excited about. And I was doing it because it was close to my commute to work. And I remember at the time, you know, telling a partner, I was like, God, I feel like I should feel excited about building a house for myself as a woman who is buying her own house alone. And I just like, it didn't, it wasn't there, but I was buying cause it was, the commute was close to work, but it was like one of those neighborhoods where every house looks exactly like the house next to it. The yard is like three feet big. And I was like, I'm just, I'm not really that excited and really excited to not have a landlord, but like not excited overall. And when the pandemic hit, it really caused me to reevaluate my actual needs and the things that I actually want out of life. And I ended up pulling out of my bill of like 30 days before it was done, which I would not recommend to anyone.
Madison (19:02):
They were not happy. And I ended up buying in a place where everyone's home. My God, that's so far because I am an hour from downtown, but it has been at the best decision for my mental health to have a bunch of deer with me in my backyard and not have any neighbors and do the things that I wanted for me because now on the weekends, I'm closer to the things I want to do rather than being an hour from the things I want to do. But 15 minutes from work, when again, work is always going to change the chances of me not loving the chances of me loving water or me loving nature are probably not going to change. And I finally like flipped how I was prioritizing and did it backwards. Like, yeah, I'll commute to work because that can change, but I'm going to put myself near the things and I'm always going to love.
Erin (19:45):
Can I just tell you that same similar situation happened? I moved across the country during this pandemic. And part of it was because I lived in the city of Chicago for 15 years in the city. And when the pandemic hit, I realized I didn't have a patch of grass. My family didn't have a patch of grass to our name. Like literally I could not stand in a patch of grass near in my life that I could call my own. So we ended up driving across the country to visit my parents. And when we got out of their car, they live in a very rural area. I took my shoes off and I stood in the grass and cried. And it was the most grounding experience because I realized exactly the work will always be there, but I really reprioritized what I needed. And it's nature.
Erin (20:32):
It's being outside. It's fresh air it's I live near the ocean now. Like those things are so important. And I think we let work dictate and rule our lives so much sometimes that we deprioritize our own mental and the fact that you found it. And so many people found it during this past year is, is wonderful because then we can actually get back to humanizing work, which is why I want to talk to you today. Can I can, I'm going to bring it to this point. So I saw this on one of your posts and I will never forget it. You said, hire humans, not resumes. And you compare it. You called yourself a recovering recruiter. Can you tell us a little bit more about this? What a recovering recruiter means to you?
Madison (21:19):
Recruiting is by far the most stressful role that I've ever had because you're technically supposed to be selling. And there's something really yucky about selling someone, something that's not real because when you sell something, you're not like, think about it. If you were going to sell me a used car, you're not going to be like, wow, it's so pretty, but it's got three flat tires. You're just going to tell me it's pretty. And so when you're recruiting, you're essentially expected to do the same thing, which I don't feel good about as a black woman, as a pure person to basically sugarcoat everything in order to get people hired. I remember sitting on a panel last year and it was just some people from some big organizations, Slack and Microsoft. And I was really the only person who was coming from the startup world. And they were talking about how they, you know, sell candidates and all of these things. And I just felt so gross about it because at the end of the day, I want people to come work with me who want to be here because it's the right thing for them.
Madison (22:07):
Not because I convince them that it's the right thing for them. And so then when you're working against quotas and metrics, all of the time, you're forced to do that because you want to keep your job. You obviously have to pay the bills and put groceries on the table. And so you end up being in this world where you don't necessarily feel great about what you're doing, if you can't be completely honest. And so when I talk about hiring humans and not resumes, so often we forget that people are like, not just their skillset, like I'm really good at what I do, but I'm also like a person with a personality. And because I'm a person with personality and human it also means I have emotion, but for so long, we've been conditioned to pretend that emotions don't exist at work, which one isn't even like semi realistic, but it's also not fair because the level of emotion and the level of trauma that exists in the workplace is very different for me than it could be for Chad in finance.
Madison (23:02):
And so you're asking people to swallow a lot of stuff in exchange for a paycheck. And for me, I'm not okay with that. We talk so much about authenticity and bring your whole self to work and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, bringing my whole self to work isn't like being the happy person with blue hair and tattoos. Authenticity is acknowledging that the human experience is extremely messy and it doesn't get less messy with title or money or age. It just, it stays frickin messy. And so for me, and the thing I learned the most in 2020 was like, I needed to acknowledge when things were too much and things were too heavy because it wasn't that things were too heavy at work. It was that I couldn't turn the news off after George Floyd. And it literally felt like the entire world was sitting on my shoulders and I needed to work for a company that allowed me to say, Hey, I need to take a break because I just, I cannot handle all of this right now.
Madison (23:58):
And I often find that companies want the happy parts of authenticity. They don't want the real parts.
Erin (24:02):
That's it.
Madison (24:03):
They forget that humans have a ton of emotional baggage regardless of who you are. And no matter how much therapy you've gone to, or how much you've handled and healed, it doesn't really go away, especially when you are now thinking about the barriers that come with being a marginalized person.
Erin (24:20):
So let's talk about this a little bit. I want to, first and foremost, I respected every post that you made in 2020. I found you on LinkedIn in 2020. And for me, you were such a guiding light through the murder of George Floyd, through the social pandemic, the social injustice pandemic of 2020, that we're still going through that you know, was a long time in the making. But I, I love that you have this authenticity about you, that isn't just, you know, you're a unicorn, but you're not butterflies and rainbows unicorn you're real.
Erin (25:06):
My husband tells me I live in a land of unicorns and rainbows that I'm like, well, there she is right there. But truly you really get real with that authenticity. And I love when you said Chad in finance, let me just tell you that that brings me joy because I always say Chad in accounting. So this is where we make the thing. So you changed jobs, right? And the course of the past year. So you're now VP of people, right?
Madison (25:32):
Yeah. And I was VP of people before I just kind of had an industry switch.
Erin (25:37):
Gotcha. Okay. So, but now, but you do so you're at this, it's like a startup type role, right? So this isn't corporate America, more startup entrepreneurial. And then you are also the founder of the blue haired unicorn, the COO of C pine. And you're the co owner of the triple B community. Is that correct? Are these all of the job titles that you have right now?
Madison (26:00):
Yes.
Erin (26:04):
One quick, first question, do you sleep?
Madison (26:07):
Yes. And I sleep very well, actually.
Erin (26:09):
Good. Cause your mental health is a priority. Everyone listen to that, but she is a leader and so many facets. So when you talk about authenticity, when you talk about showing up in this messy world that we're living in, knowing that things are happening in our life right now, you know, we thought we were recovering from this pandemic. The Delta variant is very much apparent, right? So the news is constantly in the background and we've had to in this new age bring what's happening in the world and talk about it because in our face, it came to, it made us stay home from work. Right. So when somebody asks you about your leadership style, what do you say your leadership style is?
Madison (26:55):
So for me, I am very much team captain player. I don't ever want to say that I'm team and coach, because I'm never going to ask people to do something that I'm not willing to do myself. Being someone who played sports up until literally four years ago yesterday. Cause I had a big old ACL reconstruction. That was really the most important thing to me. I've always played soccer. I played rugby in college. And for me it's always been, I want people to be able to learn because I'm also doing it with them and I'm doing it next to them. I'm not going to ask people to do the crappy admin work that I'm not willing to touch. I want people to be able to get better at their job because they're working with a leader who is doing the work with them. And on top of that, being able to be open about the things that I experienced when I navigate work and the things that I experienced emotionally with my team, because they have the right to do the same thing.
Madison (27:49):
And I also know that if I don't do it, they're not going to feel like they can do it. There is a power dynamic there. And I want people to know that I am open about these things because I want my team to do the same. I take my PTO because I want my team to take their PTO. Those are the things that are so important to me. And I think they're often missed. It's why, when we look at the data of unlimited PTO, it doesn't actually work because we all know that if the things that work best are the things that can be measured. And it sounds like a great idea in theory, but if we don't actually use it and then people don't take PTO, did we actually do them a favor or did we do them a disservice?
Erin (28:22):
Right. Right. And that's, I think so important as a leader to show people how you want them to act. So you're actually doing it with them. And I love that so much. What comes to your mind when you think of conventional leadership?
Madison (28:42):
I think to the reason that I had to even dub myself, but blue hair to anything I interviewed for a company a couple of years ago. And we're so conditioned to be so excited when people want to interview us and when they want to work for us so much so that we often forget that we're interviewing them too. And I think we're less likely to be real in an interview. And I remember this woman saying, oh my God, we love you. We really want to work with you. You're so great. You're so talented. But I was like, oh God, what? And she was like, we need you to control your hair and change it to a natural color and take out your nose ring and cover your tattoos and wear a skirt. And, and, and, and, and in the moment I was like, okay, just send me the offer letter, I guess.
Madison (29:26):
And I'll look it over. And, you know, she followed up with, you know, our, our owner is just very conservative and in my brain, I was like, why did y'all interview me? Like me, me of all people. But in the moment I was so pleased. I was like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for the offer. I can't wait till it to the offer letter. But on the way home, I found myself seeing for being read, because I've had this realization that I was like, how many times have I worked for someone who didn't give a crap about who I was as a person, they cared about how much money I could make them. Like, how much I could do for them, how much I could alleviate their workload. And that's exactly what they wanted from me. They knew I was really good at what I did. And they knew I would make them money, but they wanted me to do it while I also made them comfortable.
Madison (30:10):
And so I went home and I was like, how can I, how can I, how can I make sure that no, one's gonna ask me to change my hair again. So at home, and I was like, I'm gonna put blue hair recruiter in my tagline. And so I put blue their recruiter in my bag. And then I remember, you know, back to the beginning of our conversation where I was working with that, that leader who told me to show up, when I interviewed with him, I was like, okay, so my hair is blue. And he was like, yes, I have eyes thank you. And I was like, are you okay with that? And he was like, I don't give a. And then I learned, I was like, oh my God, like, this is an older white guy who literally just told me he doesn't give a shit. So I don't give a. Perfect. And I'm just gonna roll it back from here on out.
Erin (30:49):
I've always wondered how you became the blue haired unicorn. I didn't even have to ask that question. I just asked you, what do you think of conventional leadership? And that story came out. I am so excited to know this. So that makes total sense to me. I love that. And I think my favorite reaction to asking you this question was, oh God, that was the first two words out of your mouth. And I was like, what comes through your mind when you think of conventional leadership? And I want to ask this follow-up question, have you ever done improv, have you ever done improv before?
Madison (31:23):
So I did theater all the way through college. So I guess the right answer is yes. Fun fact about me is if you have me doing a fireside chat or a keynote, there is like a hundred percent chance that I go off of whatever script I planned. And I basically will just improv the whole thing from my brain.
Erin (31:42):
Yes! I knew there is a theater background there. So we're bad at that. I knew I knew it,uthrough college, which is awesome. So as, so you know about improv and you know, that improv is all about creating an ensemble, creating a safe space, and we use this art form to guide people outside of their comfort zone. We definitely use outside of the box training to help professionals and corporate leaders be their best selves. So it's definitely breaking that mold of old school leadership. So knowing the story that you just told us, what is one piece of advice or one action item that you would tell somebody in the improve it! Fam today to do, if they wanted to start leading outside of the box, what's one action item they could do?
Madison (32:36):
So I think for me, it's about I say this often in my own content, it's like unpacking your own uncomfies because we can't be non-conventional leaders or out of the box leaders. If we haven't actually unpack the stuff that makes us uncomfortable. So much of conventional leadership comes from the idea that other people who don't fit into our idea of normal make us uncomfortable. And unless we're willing to impact why we feel that way and that we do feel that way and take it one step further, acknowledge the harm you've caused others by feeling that way. Then we can't actually move forward. And I actually think that's a hundred percent the hardest part, you know, I am naturally a cynic, but I also don't go out into the world, believing that everyone wakes up with the intent to do harm. I actually think most of us do the opposite. We're just not really aware of the harm we cause cause very rarely are we actually that in tune with ourselves. And so when you have to acknowledge that you've caused harm, it is a gross feeling.
Madison (33:32):
It is a bad feeling and people, one don't want to feel bad too. We don't want to acknowledge that we have been assholes. And so now what do you do with that? And so often people shy away from having the idea. So instead they dig their heels in and they're like, no, my belief is real. My, my feelings are valid, whatever it is about whatever. So often, you know, I think about with my other partner, Reese they're non-binary and like the whole argument around they, them pronouns people just instead of being like, oh God, I never realized that I could use them in a singular fashion, dig their heels into like the grammatical argument, which like I have an entire degree in English. I promise you, you have you say them in a singular form. You just didn't notice because you weren't paying attention to your language.
Madison (34:14):
But if we're not willing to do that, we can't actually then call ourselves leaders who think outside of the box. We think outside of the box, as far as we can be comfortable. But for me, it is unpacking that fact that if someone else makes me uncomfortable, that is not their issue to deal with. It is my own. Yeah. And that should be the same for every single person who joins my team, joins my organization. Everyone I consult with, if something about them makes me uncomfortable. That is something that I have to deal with internally. Not something that needs to be reflected back on them as their problem.
Erin (34:46):
Yeah, man, I love, I really love everything that you just said. And I think, especially with the pronoun piece, I just saw you did a post about that, the grammatical piece. So I will try to find that post and link to it in the show notes because it was so good. So any leader listening today, take heed on this? I think Madison, you are such a risk taker when it comes to and I liked that you call it spicy. Okay. So I'm going to say when it comes to using spicin it, right. And using your voice and just speaking up, right. You have such a confidence which I'm learning and listening to. You has taken time to just be comfortable putting it out there because you've done the work for you to be able to put that work out into the world. And it's so beautiful to witness. But I know that leading in a way that is authentic is so important to you. And I know a lot of our improve it! Family listening today is listening and they're nodding their heads. Yes, Madison, how do I, how do I do this? How do I step outside of my old school leadership box?
Erin (35:58):
I know there's a lot of trepidation around that because we are so used to staying inside of this way of leading. So what would you say to anybody listening who is afraid? What can you tell them to help them overcome this fear of stepping outside of their old school leadership box?
Madison (36:17):
You know, I think there's fair with trying anything new, but for me, the thing that overcomes that fear is the fear that I'm going to cause someone some kind of trauma and it is worth it for me to do the work. And the work is hard. In order to spare someone that trauma for me, I often talk about social justice and social justice is also something that exists at work. Social justice is giving people the experience of what work should feel like. And I move forward in my life with that at the very forefront of my mind, what should work feel like?
Madison (36:50):
And how am I impeding that? How is my organization impeding that? And how can I blow that up and fix it? And so yes, it is scary and yes, it is hard. And I encourage you while you're doing this work to also take care of yourself and think about your own needs and how you need to find your own piece and set your own boundaries. However, for me, in order to really burn it down and create organizations and systems that work for everyone, we have to be able to leverage our privilege and the privilege we have as being in leadership, there is power there and we have to be willing to leverage that privilege and that power to make sure that we get to lift up those who are behind us, because the only way they get to see these seats is if we help clear the way for them to get here.
Erin (37:35):
That is powerful. See these things like you just said, you've just riff, right? These come, you are an improviser. Look at you. I mean, this is content that is, needs to be written on Canva, but we need you and your graphic design skills to write that down, please.
Madison (37:51):
So I'm writing a book.
Erin (37:57):
What is the deets? Tell us that it's when is it, when are you, when's your deadline? When or when does it publish? When is the release date? Tell us all this stuff.
Madison (38:05):
Yeah, so we don't have all this stuff yet. I actually I will say that publishing is really white and also a really wild experience. And I had a really hard time finding an agent who I trusted with my voice. Every agent I talked to up until the agent I had was like, how do we make white line comfortable? I love this book, but we need white men to be comfortable because we need them to buy it because they are the majority of like, you know, financial stakeholders. And I was like, I don't want white men to be the financial stakeholder in my book. I want them to buy it because I want them to learn.
Madison (38:34):
And I want them realize that I don't actually need them to be powerful. And that's the whole world that I'm trying to create is I shouldn't have to lean into anyone's whiteness or anyone's power in order to find my own. And when I met this agent that I have now, you know, the first thing he said to me, he was like, I get it white. He's like publication and publishing lives at the intersection of white supremacy. And I was like, oh my God, it's you I've been waiting for you. And so, although the process felt so long and daunting and so frustrating, it was so worth it to find someone who was like, no, we're going to write the book that you need to write and the book that people need to read. And by people, I don't mean how do I, how do I write a book for white men to feel comfortable?
Madison (39:14):
Because that's not me. If I wrote that book, everyone would be very confused about my whole brand because I've never done anything to make anyone uncomfortable. And so we are, I'm in the process of finishing up my proposal and my writing samples, but essentially the entire outline and all of the chapter summaries are done. So it is a, what I found I'd already had all that done luckily, cause I've had now months to work on it, but it was like a breath of fresh air to be like, oh my God, you get it. And to wait for an agency that was black woman owned feels like the best thing I could've ever done for myself.
Erin (39:49):
I'm so excited for you. Okay. So when, when everything is ready to go out into the world, we will re we will re air this episode and tell everyone to buy your book. That is so exciting. And I love that you're writing it because this is what you need to say and what the world needs to hear. I want to, I want to talk about that. Cause you just said something, you said, I don't write anything or I don't put anything out there to make people comfortable. And, and, and that's a big theme, I think exactly for the writing that you put on LinkedIn, it has to be, I mean, you literally have a book in your LinkedIn posts, right? So you have so much content already out there. So I know that you've said this, speak up even when your voice shakes and you've had a lot of people celebrate you and you touched on this in the beginning of the show, but you've had a lot of people who have been awful to you on the interwebs and you've received death threats. So you also have rage to rainbows. You created rage to rainbows. Right? Tell us about that and how that was born.
Madison (40:50):
Oh gosh. So it was boring basically because I found myself doom scrolling a lot in 2020. And pre-election, I feel like the trolls are out in pretty intense force on my posts. And I found myself constantly in this state of wanting to educate, but also wanting to be a snarky b because that's who I am. Like, I am a hundred percent. I have to have the last word I'm snarky. And I was like, oh my God, this is so exhausting. And I'm not making any money from like telling these people off. So what can I do that actually makes the world better and will equally piss them off as much as my snarkiness one. And so, you know, when I thought about it, I was like, God, if you're making me miserable bleeding, you don't know on the intranet, what is it like to be the person who sits next to you at work or the woman who bags your groceries or the woman who lives next store to you that you just don't like.
Madison (41:43):
And so I wanted to basically support those people. And so I started every time I got a crappy comment, I would just donate to an organization that I felt like would support the other people in their lives, where they were probably making miserable. So for example for really sexist comments, I was donating to planned parenthood for comments on me being a black woman. I was I was donating to this company or this organization that helps black women get therapy. And so I just had a whole list and I, at the time I was like, oh, this is like a cool idea. I'm going to make making a post. And again, when I made that post, I was like, Hey, like for every race comment, I'm donating here. And for every, you know, homophobic comment, I'm delegating to the Trevor project. And I just made a list.
Madison (42:23):
It was like seven, seven little sentences. And I was like, wow, that's not a very spicy post. I'm posting it on a Sunday, like light work. No, I got death threats. And I like, okay, now I have to do like, I have to do it now because like just the Postmate yelling angry. And this woman who, I didn't know at the time Emily reached out and he was like, Hey, I really want to help you with this project. Like, let me know what we can do. And we started just talking about it for the next six months. We got to know each other really well. And then we launched range to rainbows last November and like immediately almost raised $12,000. So it was it was really cool and really impactful to see. And it was like, the timing was, was really great. Cause we talked about it in June and then sometime in August or September, this wild alt-right influencer who some of y'all probably follow on LinkedIn because she's also an organizational psychologist made an entire 30 minute video about me, which led me do people showing up at my house.
Madison (43:19):
And not in the fun way. They weren't here for fun reasons. And it was like right around that time that we decided to launch. Cause I was like, you know what? Like, I'm not going to apologize for saying fire races and write your policies to protect people, even when that makes the other side angry, because racism should only make you uncomfortable if you're a racist, like you should only find racism to be getting fired for being racist, to be a scary thing. If you feel like that might be you. And if you feel like that might be, maybe you have some unpacking to do. And when we launched this, it was such a relief because I again was just standing so strong in the things that I believe in rather than I could have totally backed down and made my stuff private and deleted my LinkedIn.
Madison (44:00):
Because when I tell you, she has like a hundred thousand followers on YouTube. Oh, wow. Wow. And like to clarify, she was at the Capitol. So if we want to know what kind of human she is. And I mean, when I tell you like it was a good video, it probably took her four or five hours to make because she pulled my content. She pulled my, my Twitter feed. Like she put a lot of effort into it. And then on top of putting a lot of effort into it, like tweeted out my handle 9,000 times, like it was and then she made a followup video. And when I tell you like the comments are really graphic, like the kind of comments that my partners were like, Ooh, you shouldn't read these because they mentioned blood. And I just, I refuse to let someone else make me scared, you know, the thing.
Madison (44:40):
And I will talk about it a lot in my book is the thing that made me have this, like come to the light moment of like whole, gosh, you're a black woman in that matters is I dated someone who nearly killed me and not only did he nearly kill me, he was just a straight up racist. And so like, I lived through that and I came on the, out on the other side of it. So I refuse to let some like random woman on the internet make me like, feel fear in my own home because I've worked really hard to alleviate myself of feeling fear in my own home. And so I just, I refused to give her that power. Like I never responded to her. I never responded to like her little friends. Like I just, I, I don't want to, because I knew that would be giving her the power, like as if she impacted me. And she didn't. I went on with my happy little life, ate a crab Rangoon, and move, move to help.
Erin (45:29):
I love the crab rangoon made our way into this podcast. Yes. Potatoes, tater tots, crab rangoon. We've done it all. Okay. So first of all, that what a story and I am so impressed with how you handled that. And I can't imagine that happening and that is fricking scary, but kudos to you for just staying strong, holding strong in your beliefs and being the bigger person literally. I mean, that is, that's some stuff and I'm so glad that rage to rainbows exists. And I know that you put these spicy posts out there, but you create conversations that need to be had. And so I want to kind of end our show with this. We say in improve it! Your it can mean so many things, right? So improv is a big part of what we do and that it is whatever it is that it, that thing that you feel like you're put on this earth to do. So what would you say is your it?
Madison (46:32):
Oh gosh, I think my it is burning it down. And I mean, all of it for me, my biggest goal is that the people who come after me never question if these corporate spaces were made for them. So many people right now who look like me will live like me, come here. And they know that this was not made for them. They know they have to be someone different in order to be successful in order to get a promotion in order to get hired. And that's what I'm trying to burn down because everyone should just get to exist and be good at what they do. You shouldn't have to be two people every single day, because not only is that not fair to you, it is exhausting. It is draining and it is trauma. And so for me, that is my it is if I can make companies a space where people can just come in and exist safely without worrying, like, is my job going to be at risk?
Madison (47:21):
If I mentioned my partner, or if I wear my hair in a different style than what is socially acceptable, that's what to me and for everything I do and everything that I talk about that is my main point is that the world should exist in a way that I can just show up and feel safe.
Erin (47:41):
Yes. Oh, I love that answer. Burn it all down and burn it all down. That's your hashtag burn it at all. I love, I love it. Okay. Well, Madison, we know that you are on LinkedIn. So how can people find you? If you go to LinkedIn, just type in Madison Butler, you'll see blue haired unicorn, where else can they find you?
Madison (48:03):
Uh so I do have a website which is blue-haired unicorn.com. You can also find me on Instagram and Twitter, which is corporate unicorn, but it's spelled funky. So I will send it to you and you can put it in the bottom part of your description.
Erin (48:20):
You got it. You got, yes. Send it to me. We'll put it in the show notes. But Madison is, you always say that's the tea okay. You are a unicorn. You have gorgeous blue hair and the world needs more of you. So I want to just say, thank you so much for sharing your time and your talents here with us on the improve it! Podcast. We are so grateful to have you on the show.
Madison (48:43):
Thank you for having me and I, again, I'm sorry. It takes so long, but I'm so happy to be here. This was fun.
Erin (48:48):
Yes. All right, bye.
Erin (48:58):
Improve it! Fam oh my gosh that show, Madison Butler. This was a dream interview for me. I am so honored to have had her on this show. And if you took anything away from today's show it's this, you have permission to break the mold of old school leadership. Be you, be unapologetically you because the world needs that special it that only you can bring. Thanks for listening improve it! Fam, I'm sending you so many virtual hugs. We'll see you here next week.
Erin (49:40):
Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy. You're along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to the show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keepinitrealdiehl on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I want to leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.