Episode 72: Why You Should Still Have Candid Conversations In A Virtual World
Happy Wednesday, improve it! Fam! Thanks for tuning back in for another packed episode.
How do you feel when someone gives you feedback?
Are you still having those candid conversations in this virtual world?
Listen in while Erin gives you three reasons (inspired by improv, of course!) why candid conversations should still exist in a virtual world.
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Connect with Erin:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
Episode 72 Transcription
Erin Diehl (00:00):
Are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new, innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers, team-building exercises, and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out? Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of this same old dry, boring leadership books and icebreakers that aren't actually working. Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv edutainer, failfluencer, and professional zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. And this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building, effective communication, networking, presentation, skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transformed their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun. Welcome to improve it! The podcast!
Erin Diehl (01:35):
Can I be Frank? Can I, can I be candid? Sorry. Can I give you some feedback? Improve it! Family did your eyeballs just roll to the back of your head? Do you feel like you got punched in the gut with a soccer ball logged at you by a very strong toddler? Bless up. Okay. Why does the word feedback and candid and candor make us crazy? If you've ever seen the movie from wine art, not from wine country, the movie wine country with Amy Poehler, I highly highly recommend it. You may remember this song. Can I get some feedback, feedback, feedback? There you go. That is your musical rendition for the day. It's a very powerful song, very powerful movie, but the whole purpose is they ask each other can I give you some feedback and let me just say this my beautiful, beautiful improve it! Family. Feedback is a pill that we need to swallow.
Erin Diehl (02:40):
And that pill is a vitamin that gives us nutrients to grow and push past discomfort and learn. Speaking of pills, what am I talking about here? I have got a quick painkiller for you. So let me just ask you this. Are you struggling right now with leading your team in this virtual world? Are you trying to figure out how to communicate and inspire and motivate them over video conference or over your slack channel or Microsoft teams? Then join us. My friends, we are doing a public workshop September 21st, 2021. So if you're listening to this later, it's September 21st, 2021 from 11:00 AM central to 12:30 PM central. And we are going to place the link for this in the show notes, come join us. We have a fantastic group of leaders and other members of the improve it! Fam who will be present. So join us September 21st. Now I wanted to make sure I got that out there because it's super important and it's coming up, but back to our regular scheduled programming.
Erin Diehl (03:48):
So before we dive into today's episode, I want you to do this. You know, I like a good visualization. And if you're new to the show welcome, I like to visualize. So here's what I want you to do think right now, of some of the most critical feedback that you have ever received. Feedback in the form of communication, meaning you are to get better, something you're not doing right. Close your eyes. Okay. If you're driving, keep one eye open, but think about it. Where were you? How old were you? What were your wearing get, get all the senses and think about the smell of the room. It could be pungent. It could not be, but I want you to think about how that feedback made you feel.
Erin Diehl (04:42):
All right. Hope that was a long enough pause to let you feel that I want you to now think about the results of that hard conversation. What did that critical feedback drive you to do? What did it drive you to change? Here's a fun story for you. I will never forget the hardest piece of feedback that I've received and maybe not to date, but just something that really sticks out in my mind. So I was an intern, a production intern at a television show in Atlanta. It was brand new on the network. Oh my God, what was the network? Not ups. It was no longer a network, but it was on a network and it was called Atlanta tonight. I can't UPN, there it is UPN. And I was a production intern and it was the very first production internship they'd ever had. And my manager, who was a producer of the show said to me and my end of internship review, or actually she didn't say it to me, but the HR director said to me that they would not hire me for a role because Erin is not mature enough for a role in an office or corporate setting.
Erin Diehl (06:00):
Now let me just say I was in Atlanta. I was 21 years old. I was probably wearing a really crappy shirt from wet seal and some sort of business pant. That was like a Gaucho. I was sitting in the HR director's office. I remember it was a high rise building in Atlanta, and I got that feedback. So let me just say that was a pill to swallow friends. It was one of those pills that gets caught in your throat and then it burns and it sticks around for a while. And you just feel like you've always got a pill hanging out in your mouth for like two days, you know what I'm talking about? No. Okay. Well, it was like that. It was a tough pill and I was constantly in that internship, stuck in the office, logging tapes. When what I really wanted to be doing was going out on this shoots, watching the television show hosts, interview celebrities, learning how to edit from the editors, seeing how to act, dress, and be around celebrities.
Erin Diehl (07:02):
And most of which were mostly rappers at the time. So I was friends at this point with one of the producers, not my boss, but another producer. And she was awesome. She would sneak me off to shoots. And then the videographer for the team became my good friend. And so one day I snuck out with said team. And my producer called me from her razor Verizon cell phone. You know, the ones, the little flip razor phones. And she said, where are you? I got to tell you, she hated me because I'll tell you what I wanted this opportunity. I wanted to learn what they were doing out on these shoots. And she wanted me to sit and log tapes, which ultimately was what they hired me to do was be their assistant. Right. And I'll say this, she was correct in her feedback. I wasn't mature enough.
Erin Diehl (07:53):
I was bored. So I took it on my own liberties to correct that. Was it the best idea. No, looking back that feedback stuck now, as I said before, she did that. Even give me that feedback. The HR director gave it to me. The HR director could not believe this feedback because I had actually made friends with her and I made it my mission to be really kind and respectful and fun to everybody in the office because I knew I wanted a lot of connections coming out of this internship. I was an all-star to everyone else except this producer, who was my boss now, although this was a free and I repeat free 40 hour a week internship free 40 hour week internship. That was early two thousands people, not anymore. I was bound to make the most of the opportunity. And I remember that feedback.
Erin Diehl (08:52):
And in that moment, when she, the HR director, it to me, I felt like the biggest idiot. Like I messed up my entire summer, which was going to mess up my entire career. And if she said this type of feedback in my review, that obviously my producer didn't give the HR director gave, but what was my producer saying behind my back to everyone else? Because she did not give me feedback throughout the summer, except for where are you and various sighs throughout the day. Now, although there was one time I saw her in the cafeteria while I was eating corn from a can. I'm not even joking. I literally brought in canned vegetables because I was broke as a joke. And she asked me if I could stay late that day. And I said, I couldn't because I had to get to my other job, which is actually a paid job at a restaurant.
Erin Diehl (09:46):
So I remember she scoffed at me and she said, I don't even know why you have this internship. So I guess that was her feedback to me for the summer. But anyway, I digress, I was feeling like a big hashtag looser. And after time passed, I actually reminisced and reminded myself based off that feedback, what I wanted to learn it was to do the job that you have to do first, even the parts that suck and then branch out once that job is done, take on more stretch assignments, but do the job that you were there to do first, do it really well. And then you can go outside of your role. And that still sticks with me today as a founder, when I have to do accounting work or fill out paperwork or anything that isn't what I love to do, which is to be creative, to facilitate, to talk to you, hear all of that makes me so excited.
Erin Diehl (10:38):
I love spreadsheets and paperwork. And I just tell myself in this moment, it's now get it done. And then you can have fun. No job is glamorous. Oprah probably has to look at spreadsheets. Good old Ops. So thank you anonymous producer to remain nameless for the lesson and the feedback that you provided to me almost 20 years ago, that was the vitamin that I needed to move forward. So all of this to say improve it, family. This was an in-person internship back when Google maps were a thing you printed off, text messaging took three hours because you had to press every number three times to get to one letter and bleach blonde highlights were cool. Okay. That last one was just for me. But what I'm saying is that work has changed. It's so different than it was 20 years ago, right? I know that people are being onboarded working from home.
Erin Diehl (11:39):
Now people may rarely if ever step foot inside their office offices are being converted into rental spaces for collaboration. And we are all just figuring it out or dare I say improvising as we go. So candid conversations are crucial. Try saying that five times fast - candid conversations are crucial. Candid conversations are crucial. You can do it. You probably could do it. It's a good actors warmup. Anyhow, as we all experienced in 2020 or 2021 change is the only constant here. And if we allow things to fester, while change is happening, we make up stories in our head and we watch our superstars and rock stars on our team underperform because we didn't guide them the way that they needed to be guided. So in true improv fashion, I'm going to give you three reasons why candid conversations should still exist in a virtual world by infusing in some of the rules of improv.
Erin Diehl (12:42):
And these are three direct rules by one of the greatest improvisers there ever was Del close. Now Del close was an American actor writer and teacher who coached many of the best known comedians and comic actors of our century. You've seen so many people who are now very famous, who have been under his guidance. He was a huge actor at the IO theater in Chicago, actually a huge founder of that theater and his work really inspired the long form improv that is called the Herald. So he came up with that long form. What we call long form improv the Herald. One of his biggest rules that I want us to incorporate into. Why can't it? Conversations should still exist in this virtual world is this. Get ready. Rule one. If we treat each other as if we are geniuses, poets and artists, we have a better chance of becoming that on stage.
Erin Diehl (13:44):
Now this is a rule of improv theater. If we treat each other as if we are geniuses, poets and artists, we have a better chance of becoming that on stage. I said that again, because I want you to think about it in context for your team. If you treat your team like they are the smartest person at their job in your company, the smartest admin assistant, the smartest marketing director, the smartest HR coordinator, then gosh, darn it. They're going to believe it. And if they believe it, they have a better chance of becoming it. So what I mean here is virtually when you can't see the day-to-day operations of your team, all you can see is the work that they produce and the results they produce. Then every interaction with them is important. Now I want you to make a point to give them praise first and especially in virtual meetings, as long as it's very genuine and make them feel seen for the work that they're doing well.
Erin Diehl (14:47):
So you can do this if you're on a team meeting, you can do this in on slack channels. You can do this publicly, but when you need to correct, or you need to provide feedback, make sure that this is done one-on-one and use the notion that you know that they can do whatever the feedback is that you're giving them. You see it, you believe in them and then provide the necessary feedback. So here's an example, okay, let's call her Susan. Susan's a marketing manager and she is half budding. I don't want to say BA work cause I'll get a different rating on this podcast, but she's half budding her copy for all of the company, for the all internal company newsletter. So Susan's job is marketing and she writes this newsletter for her internal large team. Now you, her manager, have seen her do great work in the past with lots of innovative ideas, but the effort and the end product has not been ideal as of late.
Erin Diehl (15:45):
So you schedule a one-on-one with her, or you provide her feedback in the weekly meeting that you have with her one-on-one and you say Suse, I loved those newsletters. You were busting out last month. And for the months press, they were so creative. And I love the visuals and the fun gifts and things you put into them. And I'm saying gifts like those funny little meany things that you see on the internet. I haven't seen you do that lately. Is there a reason why? So you made her feel like a rockstar, a poet and artist, and you listen and ask why pause, pause for response. You hear her response and you adjust or use this. I know that you are super creative. I've seen it in past newsletters. I love them and so did the team, can we try to do more of those visuals and make it more engaging for this month?
Erin Diehl (16:38):
So Suse, Susan, whoever feels like a poet and an artist, and she received feedback in a way that still makes her feel like she's creative and it doesn't disrupt her inner genius. So that was number one, tip number one, three reasons why candid conversations should still exist in a virtual world. And that is if we treat each other as if we are geniuses, poets and artists, we have a better chance of becoming that onstage. Del close said that, you know, who's going to say that now you, my friend, take it, use it, incorporate it, make your team feel like the genius that they are, and they will become it and provide feedback to them and showing them examples of work that they've done in the past, that you know, that they did very well, how they can incorporate new things in the future and build them up, build them up.
Erin Diehl (17:32):
It's just like we're working with like, I have a two year old, right? And I'm really using this positive reinforcement to make him feel like he can do things in his life. It's the same with adults. It's the same with human beings. We want to feel like people trust us and know that we can do that. And so if we believe in four set in our team and then provide feedback around that, oh, it's so, so powerful. So here's the second rule from the improv theater from Del close himself that I think really makes sense as it comes to giving candid feedback in this virtual world, Del Close said, number two, the only real mistake here is ignoring the inner voice. The only real mistake here is ignoring the inner voice. What does that mean? Onstage it means the only thing that you can do wrong is not trust your gut.
Erin Diehl (18:28):
The only thing you can do wrong is get in your head and second guess yourself or second guess your team member. So how do we translate this to a virtual world? Well, I'm going to give you another metaphor my friend, if you've ever heard the spinach in the teeth analogy, if you've heard it, you're going to hear it again. If not, this is new. So let's say this, your friend shows up at a party and she has spinach right between her two front two teeth here. Okay. Her two big teeth. She looks like Popeye or the jolly green giant. And you are too afraid to tell her about the spinach in her teeth. For fear, it would ruin your new friendship. This is a new friend. Okay? And you really want somebody to go with you to yoga every week. So you ignore that inner voice in your head that says, tell her she has spinach in her teeth, tell hers he looks like Popeye, and you keep going. And she has a forest sticking out of her face while hanging out with your neighbors, hashtag friend fail. Okay? That analogy here is going to take us into what I want you to do, which is never ignore that inner voice. When leading your team virtually never ignore that voice that says, oh, I need to talk to this person. I need to tell them to stop doing X, Y, Z. I need to tell them I need them to start doing XYZ. So here's an example. Okay. Here's how you can keep that inner voice of yours alive and never ignore it. So let's just say, Belinda, okay. Belinda shows up to late or shows up to work late. Every day, she shows up to late work. She shows up to work late every day and every day she pushes the boundaries of logging on to the team, slack channel to say, hello and good morning, because that's how your teams communicates in this virtual world.
Erin Diehl (20:23):
And most of the time, it's usually with like a fun gift for me to say, hi, good morning. And a cup of coffee, right? So she's set her hours. And her role is crucial because she has to be on time because her work affects the work of the team. The Linda's work has to get done so that Bob's work can get done so that Betty's work can get done. You see what I mean? So you're like, okay, the Linda's late. You let that slide a day or two. But that inner voice is saying to you, talk to Belinda, tell her she needs to be on time. Say something, but you don't want to hurt Belinda's feelings because Belinda gets her job done. She produces great work, at the same time everybody on your team is starting to get annoyed. So you've ignored this spinach in her teeth.
Erin Diehl (21:16):
She's got spinach in her teeth for days. Now she looks like Popeye. The team is getting POS. This has gone on now for a month. And the team is getting more and more frustrated, not only with Belinda, but with you because you haven't talked to her and you are the person who leads Belinda. Their work is getting delayed. It's all a trickle down effect. So you've ignored your inner voice, which is screaming talk to Belinda. And now Belinda looks like spinach salad. Okay? So to fix this, you schedule some time with Belinda, give her the same feedback via video conference that we talked about, where you make her feel like a poet and a genius and build her up because you see that she does great work, but then give her the feedback that she needs to show up on time because her tardiness is affecting the team.
Erin Diehl (22:11):
So here's a great, great outcome of listening to that inner voice. You talk to Belinda and Belinda feels really bad and explains to you that her childcare keeps showing up late. So she keeps showing up late for work. And you have this great conversation with her about how great her work is, how you want to see her do her best work. So what hours make more sense for her? She says, you know, all I need is to flex 30 minutes. I need to push my start time back 30 minutes, that would work best. So you do that. She starts 30 minutes later and you adjust the workflow of the team so that the team isn't waiting on Belinda to get the work to them. And they now are no longer delayed. You've removed the spinach from Belinda's teeth. And you have listened to your inner voice bravo, my friend.
Erin Diehl (23:05):
So never ignore that inner voice that tells you that feedback needs to happen. By ignoring that inner voice, you are ignoring what you know is true and what you know is best, not only for you, but for the person you're leading and for the team that you're leading at large. Here is rule number three from Del close. And again, this is applied to improv theater, but it is going to apply so, so applicable to you. Every interpersonal situation has a solution in which everyone wins. Now, Del close meant this as in scenes. So as a scene partner, you get into a situation. And then at the, the cumulation of this is everybody can win if we trust that inner voice, if we make the other person look good, everybody can win. Even if the scene has somebody who has been fired from their job and the other person has lost their dog, okay?
Erin Diehl (24:09):
Like both of those people can win in the scene if we use this notions that I'm talking about above of listening to our inner voice, building on each other's ideas, and also really utilizing the fact that I'm going to make this person look good no matter what. You can make even the lowest status person on stage look good by the using these fundamentals and the same applies to you in your organization. So, and the example I just gave of good old Belinda, okay. Everybody won, Belinda feels like a poet and an artist because she's been praised for her work. And she feels like a crucial part of the team because she is, everyone depends on her for their work to get done. Now, she also feels great because you listened to her and Belinda feels even better because she was actually heard. You, my friend, listened to your inner voice and you removed the spinach from Belinda's teeth by addressing the conversation via zoom or video and providing a solution that works not only for Belinda, it works for you.
Erin Diehl (25:15):
And it works for the team. And then the team wins because now they are not delayed in their start time because the workflow process has been remedied and they can get work done in a timely fashion. Okay? Every interpersonal situation has a solution in which everyone wins. All of this feedback has been provided on video. So it's up to you, whether or not you actually want to use video conference. I know a lot of people in teams use zoom, Microsoft teams, WebEx. So it's up to you. If you feel like things are happening and you don't want that zoom fatigue do it over phone, but this is all happening in this virtual world. And the work is still happening. The team is productive. The team isn't ensemble and the work is the focus, not the inter personal drama. The work is the focus. Everyone wins.
Erin Diehl (26:11):
The drama doesn't win. So yet for productivity, spinach lists, teeth and more creative poets and geniuses in this world. You can see me right now. I'm literally doing rock and roll hands with my arms. It got me that jazz. Okay. So remember, have those crucial conversations in this virtual world treat your team like they are poets, artists and geniuses do not ignore your inner voice. And remember that if you can do this, everyone can win. Now I want you to go back and think about that feedback. The very top of the show that I asked you to think about the one that you received. And if you applied this methodology, how you could have been affected. I think back on my old producer, I want to really quick. What I want to say is think back on that feedback. And if this methodology was applied by the person giving you the feedback, how you would have felt differently.
Erin Diehl (27:13):
Okay. So I think back on my old producer from this internship, and I think, wow, if she would have just seen that I was a go getter and I wanted to learn things that apply to news and film, which was my major. She would have given me that feedback in the moment told me that I was smart for trying to learn on film. Shoots told me that if I logged a hundred tapes a day, she would make sure I could go out on more shoots. And then she would have gotten a productive 21 year old Brittany Spears highlighted here wannabe that log tapes and took names literally. And who could actually assist on film shoots. She could have fun. I could have one. Instead producer got a frustrated, idiotic feeling college student who looked like she fell in a pool of bleach that is not her fault.
Erin Diehl (28:07):
And she feared this woman's presence. And I would sneak away and to learn things that I actually wanted to learn. You see the difference. If she just applied these fundamentals, I would have felt differently. She would have felt differently. We both could have won. So improve it! Fam if today resonated with you, I want to encourage you to sign up for our public virtual leadership workshop on September 21st, 2021 at 11:00 AM. This workshop is truly one of my favorites. And we did this with a conference of over 300 participants recently. And we have up to 50 people in each workshop. So each workshop had about 50 people. We had six simultaneous sessions. It's a real crowd pleaser. And we are going to dive deep into communication, how to inspire your team virtually. And then once they are inspired how to keep motivating them to achieve their goals all through this lens of improv.
Erin Diehl (29:09):
And if today's show resonated with you, please, please, please, please share this to your LinkedIn page, your Instagram stories, or consider leaving us a review because that review really does mean the world to us. It helps bring so many more people here to the improve it! Fam. And we want to keep making this content to help as many people through the lens of improv as we can. I'm so proud of you. Thank you so much improve it! Fam for showing up week after week for listening, taking these steps to heart, applying them, keep playing, keep failing, and keep improving because the world needs that special it that only you can bring, I'll see you next time. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy you're along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to the show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I want to leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.