Episode 98: Bias, Racism and the Brain with Jason Greer
Are you a leader who wants to create a safe space for your team and allow all voices to be heard?
If this sounds like you, then tune into this interesting and impactful conversation with the “Employee Whisperer,” Jason Greer. He's the author of Bias, Racism & The Brain: How We Got Here & What Needs to Happen, and the founder of GRE consulting, the number one firm on diversity training for startups, fortune 500 companies, and government agencies.
The truth is, most diversity training programs fail. However, if they're done right, they can reduce turnover by as much as 40% and increase employee satisfaction scores exponentially. In this episode, Jason shares stories that, while difficult to tell, help organizations and the people within them thrive.
You don’t want to miss this episode. Hit play now!--
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Connect with Jason Greer:
· Website: https://hiregci.com/aboutus/
· Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greerconsultinglabordiversity/
· Twitter: https://twitter.com/labordiversity
· LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasongreer-laborrealationsexpert/
Connect with Erin Diehl:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 98 Transcription
Erin (00:01):
Improve it! Fam today's conversation is so impactful. I just finished hitting record. So I'm, I'm recording this intro after this interview. And I have to tell you, just sit back today and listen, take today for you as an opportunity to learn and learn from one of the most brilliant minds that I've had the pleasure of speaking to on this show. We have Jason Greer who is so fantastic. He's the author of bias racism in the brain, and he's the founder of GRE consulting. The number one firm that does diversity training for startups, fortune 500 companies, as well as government agencies. Now, the truth is that most diversity trading programs fail. But on the other hand, if they're done right, they can reduce turnover by as much as 40% and increase your employee satisfaction scores 30%. Now the best part in all of that, the bottom line is also increased.
Erin (01:07):
Jason has been featured on major publications and websites, such as the wall street journal Forbes, Yahoo finance, LA times, Bloomberg, CBS, NBC entrepreneur magazine, and ink magazine thrive. Global recognize Jason as the entrepreneur to watch in 2020. And he also works regularly with nonprofits, such as the fathers and family support center and world vision international. This conversation. I think I've cried. Maybe one other time on this show, I was moved. He is a fantastic story to his work is so impactful and so crucial to organizations. He talks about this concept of we don't have a race problem. We have a brain problem. We talk about how brains are designed to keep you safe. The difference between your in group versus your out group, and so much more improve it! Fam sit back and please listen to this show with Jason Greer. Let's get to it.
Erin (02:16):
Are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers team building exercises and activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out? Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of the same old dry, boring leadership books and ice breakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv, entertainer failfluencer and professional zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. In this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building effective communication, networking, presentation, skills leader, training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast. Oh, Jason. I'm so excited to have you on the improve it pod. Welcome to the show.
Jason (03:58):
Hey, thanks for having me here, looking forward to this.
Erin (04:01):
Oh, okay. Well, I told you, I, I gave you the warning that there is some improv in this show and I'm putting my coffee cup down. Jason, cuz we're this is, this is the fun part. So I want the improve it! Fam to get to know you a little bit. We do an activity in one of our workshops, our networking workshop, actually. Okay. Called five facts. All right. So it has a little, it has a little cheer in the up front. It goes like this five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts. I want you to tell me five facts about Jason that we could not find on your LinkedIn, your bio, anywhere it on the internet. Tell me five things about Jason. Here we go.
Jason (04:40):
Right. I have over 10,000 comic books. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. So my father has a PhD in educational psychology, and I was the source of his dissertation at age four. He taught me how to read creatively through a comic book and that I became addicted. So right now with the Marvel universe going crazy, this is the best time in the world to be a geek. I love it. It's great.
Erin (05:04):
That is insane. 10,000. OK. That's one, gimme two.
Jason (05:07):
Second, I'm an avid weightlifter. Genetically I'm a skinny guy, but physically I'm 6, 3, 275 pounds of muscle and Papa Johns. So I'm also right.
Erin (05:20):
Love that butter sauce. Garlic butter sauce cannot be the best. Oh my God. Okay. Number three.
Jason (05:25):
I have known my wife, Tiffany legitimately since she was 17 and I was 21. She was a freshman at Val university and I was a senior of Valez university dated for one month. Went apart. Like things happened and then came back together and got married in 2016.
Erin (05:44):
What
Jason (05:45):
Crazy. Right?
Erin (05:45):
That is insane. Okay. So many questions. Okay. I, I, that's a whole other show. I have, I have questions about, okay. Four, four.
Jason (05:53):
I was a victim across burnings by the Knight of Ku Klux Klan at age 17 and forgave them publicly at age 38.
Erin (06:03):
Oh my gosh. We're gonna talk about that because I saw that fact about you when I was doing my research and I have so many questions, I have so many questions. Okay. And then number five and I'm love you. Okay. Keep going, keep going.
Jason (06:15):
And I am so pigeon toed, it's crazy to, to the point where I actually make this part. When I'm doing a diversity training, I'm doing a keynote. I will talk about being pigeon toed. And the first person looks at my feet. I always point them out or laugh just to have some fun with them.
Erin (06:33):
That is amazing. And I feel like that. I mean, you can't say that without laughing. So that exactly, that got me good. All right. Well, I'm so excited to have you on the show. I'm you're such an interesting human being. You've been named the employee whisper. Yes. Which I also, I saw this and when I was doing my research, so where does this name come from?
Jason (06:56):
I wish that I could tell you that I sit around. So I'm actually doing this podcast for my hotel in Houston. I'm on the road close to 200 days outta the year. And I wish that I could tell you in a, in a moment of boredom, I'm sitting around trying to come up with nickname for myself, but it's not true. Actually a former client called me the employee whisper. And I didn't know, she called me the whisper behind my back, but she did a referral to me for me to another organization, which ended up being a wonderful client. And the guy, when he called, he goes, I'd like to speak to the employee whisper. And I promise you I'm staring at the phone like who in the blue hell is this right? He goes I'm just giving you that name because that's the name that people are calling you in the industry. So whatever you do for them, I need you to come in and do for me. So that's the employee whisperer caught on and it's gone gangbusters. It's been crazy.
Erin (07:49):
That is cool. Okay. I love that. I love that you didn't cuz like I gave myself this name, failfluencer professional zoombie. No one gave me that name. I want a cool, that is amazing. And I'm sure I know after researching you, I can see that you definitely do this. Let me talk to the employee whisper. That's that's the title of this show? The, no, I'm just kidding, but I love it so much. I appreciate it. The employee. Yeah. So you have two books, you have an Amazon number one best seller people matter most right in the international us selling book bias racism in the brain. Yes. So, okay. I, I, I don't know for sure, but I, I, I would love to know more insight into your fourth fact that you gave us, but I also wanna know, was that the defining experience that made you say I'm gonna write this book or what was that defining experience?
Jason (08:42):
Yeah. Great question. So probably the defining experience that led to the creation of bias racism in the brain, a book that I coauthored with one of my best friends in the world, gentleman, by the name of Phil Dixon, who's one of the foremost neuroscience, leadership gurus on the planet. Just incredible guy. He sounds like Sean Connery. When you talk to him, he's an awesome guy.
Erin (09:04):
Yeah. Let's let's do a voiceover recording immediately.
Jason (09:07):
Okay. Yeah, no problem. That British accent. An awesome guy.
Erin (09:09):
Oh yeah.
Jason (09:10):
Like so many people when the George Floyd moment happened, which, you know, if you want to talk about catching lightning in a bottle, that was that moment everyone's at home. And you know, the internet is rife with videos of, you know, various brutality, whether it be police brutality, whether it be, you know, people on people brutality, whatever the case might be. It just so happened that everybody would at home in that moment. And we are tuned into this video that went viral, not just nationally, but internationally. And now this conversation's coming up around racism and I have to be honest and I hope I don't, you know, offend any of your listeners. Yeah. But my wife and I were talking about this and we had this, you know, this delusion of people who were contacting us, who happened to be white friends, associates people I haven't spoken to since grade school, I didn't even know. They still remembered me. And they were asking the question, does this kind of thing happen? Hmm. And I really had to catch myself because I'm like, what do you mean does kind of thing happened? I've been talking to you about this for 20 plus years.
Erin (10:20):
Yeah.
Jason (10:21):
But nevertheless I started asking a bigger question. What can I do? What can I do to further this conversation? What can I do to effectuate change? What can I do to maybe, you know, I have all these stories. We all have these stories. We're made up of stories. How not take these stories that I've experienced, these things I've experienced and put it out there in a way not to demonize, but to really educate people, contacted Phil. And I just said, Phil, look, I have these stories. You have this brain science knowledge. What if we legitimately combine the, the stories with the brain science? Because what we found is part of the reason why people have such a difficult time understanding the perspective of other people is because if you don't have a sense of empathy, then I'm really not going to buy into everything that you say.
Jason (11:09):
I can understand it theoretically, but I can't understand it emotionally. So it said, what if we take these stories? We actually take people through my experiences as African American male in the United States. And we take people through these stories, but we also show them what's going on in their brains. Because what we found is typically the way brains are constructed, we fall into one or two categories either when we interact with people, they're either a member of our in group or out group. Our in group is anybody and everybody who looks like, thinks like us talks like us, therefore they're us. And those are the folks that we typically have connections with. Right? Yeah.
Erin (11:47):
Totally
Jason (11:48):
Side of that. We look at people who are members of our out group. And there are people who don't look like us. Don't talk like us. Don't think like us, therefore they're not us. So when you look at the divisions that are going on, not just within this country, but around the world, I typically will say that I don't know that we have a race problem so much as we have a brain problem.
Erin (12:07):
Mm.
Jason (12:07):
Just don't understand what's going on in their stories. Because what, what, what is something that people typically say when they get caught up in some type of wrongdoing, whether it's they've said something derogatory about another group of people, the first thing they say is I'm not racist. And most people will say, well, you are racist based on what you've said, but if you really went into his brain, he or she, or they don't think they're racist because they can think of a number of stories internally. Right. Then make them believe that they're as open-minded as the next person. But the reality is we're all walking around with biases that we're just not aware of.
Erin (12:43):
Oh my God, I'm writing down. We don't have a race problem. We have a brain problem because that's exactly it, Jason, I'm so grateful that you wrote this book and, and the, the in group and the out group is so interesting. And I've, I will say this it's, I've thought a lot about that in the past two years. And it is so true. There are no, and I have a great friend of mine also very involved in DEI and her, and I've had really great conversations about, there is no more unconscious bias. We all have bias. Right. It's and so it's really talking about these things, being empathetic to the other human and you collecting and sharing these stories and partnering with Phil, Phil, right? Like the, so to have both the story side, but then the science to back that up. So cool. Thank you for doing that and giving us this gift. No, it's this is, I'm so excited to talk more about this. So in my research again, Jason, I was Googlin. I was doing the Google. I was all in everything. So what, what I found was this book was essentially made, as you said to demonstrate, the way that our brains play a role in the development of our conscious absolutely unconscious biases. So it highlights the way that our minds filter out our worldview through experiences, stories, inherited beliefs, stereotypes. How, if you can explain and you know, the short time that we have to
Jason (14:16):
Sure.
Erin (14:16):
How does our brain filter this information? And then why? And I love this goes back to what you said it, we don't have a race problem. We have a brain problem. Right? Why is it so important to understand the way that our brain filters this information? Why is this so important?
Jason (14:37):
Well, I love first, lemme say, I love your questions. This is, this is awesome. So thank you.
Erin (14:41):
Yeah, no, thank you. I'm just, I'm just picking up what you're putting down. That's it.
Jason (14:47):
No worries. So let, let me give, let me give you a quick example. And then I'm going to really dive into the question that you just, that you just asked me. So I'm here in Texas. I'm watching the television. I'm rarely watching television when I'm in a hotel and I'm seeing all these political ads and it's, you know, these politicians or these, you know, political candidates, every advertisement that's out there is about fear, fear of immigrants, fear of black people, fear of whatever, right? And that actually works because the brain is designed to keep us safe. Your brain is consistently telling you a story about the outside world in nine out 10 times, that story that your brain is telling you, it's a complete and absolute lie, but the brain wants to create you say, because look, we've advanced to the point where you and I are having this conversation. You are in where you
Erin (15:39):
I'm in Charleston, South Carolina now in Charleston, South Carolina, 15 years in Chicago, just 15
Jason (15:44):
15 years in Chicago. Yes. Right? Where the stripes file where those stories are, right? I'm in Houston. We're sitting having this conversation. I can see you. Technology has advanced for a point where, you know, 30 years ago, this was the stuff of science fiction.
Erin (15:57):
Yeah.
Jason (15:58):
Now it's everyday reality.
Erin (16:00):
Totally
Jason (16:01):
Society has advanced to the point where technology rules us. But the one thing that has not advanced or evolved is our brains and our brains are still our brains. Still believe that we're living the days of our ancestors. Well, we're forging for food. And we're hanging out with people who were, you know, our clans and our clan was designed to keep us safe because these were the people we felt comfortable with. So your brain wants to keep you safe because your brain believes that there's some type of saber, two tiger. That's out there. That's coming to kill you. And saber two tigers don't even exist anymore. Right? But the reality is now we're living in a day and age in which we are actively, we're actively integrated with our out group. You go to work, you look at people who generally don't look like you don't talk like you don't think, therefore, they're not.
Jason (16:47):
You, you go on a major city, you see groups of people from different parts of the country, different parts of the world, different ethnic classes, different, you know, sexual orientation, whatever the case might be. And in your brain, if you are, if your brain is not wired to the point where you're accepting of other people, because you have not been around people who don't look like you, your brain is in a constant threat state. So part of the reason why we have so much creativity in our country is be because our brains are in this constant threat state that says just because I'm black, just because you're white, we shouldn't get along.
Erin (17:22):
Oh my God. I'm for real, I've chill, bumps. And I hate when podcasters say that, but I swear. I want you to look very closely and my, I can can see, see, I can see
Jason (17:30):
It. Absolutely.
Erin (17:31):
I, that makes so much sense. And I, sorry to interrupt. You keep going. I'm like, ah, yes,
Jason (17:36):
You're fine. So it's interesting because theoretically, we all know that we should get along. So do you remember the whole debate about all lives matter versus black lives matter?
Erin (17:45):
Yes I do. Yes I do. Right.
Jason (17:46):
What was fascinating to me was, you know, the church that I attend, wonderful people, it just so happens to be that the only real diversity in the church of me and my wife. Right?
Erin (17:55):
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason (17:56):
And it's probably 99.9% white. And you have this group of people who, if we have one thing in common, it's that we are Christians and you have this group of people when the black lives matter versus the all lives matter, versus the blue lives matter was being debated. You had these folks who were saying, well, I believe that all lives matter. Well, I'm your only black friend. Right. And I'm not even sure that we're friends because you get me confused with the lead singer in the church. Who's also African American. I'm six, three he's five, eight. So how do you get us confused? But the reality is from a brain perspective, our brains are consistently telling us a story that's just not true. And so about all lives matter. You talk about blue lives matter. You talking about black lives matter. We're kind debating semantics.
Erin (18:44):
Yeah.
Jason (18:45):
Because if I have people in my life who don't look like me and I've heard their stories, I've seen their pain, I've shed tears with them. And I've grown defensive. When I've seen them treat it like they are less than then. I'm I don't have as hard of a time accepting the fact that black lives should matter because theoretically they should matter. But the reality is they don't matter as much as what they should. Yeah. Right?
Erin (19:12):
Yep. Yep.
Jason (19:14):
Is, I'm coming back to the story, but I can't understand your story Erin, until I hear your story. Yes. You answer your story. So when we talk about the, the basis of the book, the basis of the book was I'm going to reveal who I am. I'm going to reveal what my, you know, what my stories are. I'm gonna reveal to you to the fact that I did forgive the KU Klan for burning those crosses in protests in my family. I'm going to share a story with you about walking to the gym. When I was 18 years old, I was on spring break. My freshman year of Val praise university used to be crusaders. Now they're called I think the beacons. So now I'm a proud beacon. Val appraisal beacon, right?
Erin (19:54):
Yes. I, I was like, they have a great football. You're like no era. They don't say go sports, go sports. Okay. Keep
Jason (20:00):
Going. Hot, garbage.
Erin (20:01):
Yeah. Got it. Got it.
Jason (20:02):
Right. But I remember, you know, I'm 18 years old. I'm walking to the gym. I'm listening to Shae on my Walkman. Cuz I'm dating myself. This is like what? 92.
Erin (20:11):
Okay. I love that. You saids. And I love that. You said walk, man. Keep going. Two things. Yes. I, I had a Walkman. Okay. I listened to, OK, let's do it. You
Jason (20:19):
Feel me? You can
Erin (20:20):
Play me. Yes.
Jason (20:21):
And it, at that point in my life, I'm 18, 19 years old, maybe 18 years old. And I've been called the N word so many times that I've just grown desensitized to it. Right? Yeah. So, you know, my family were in Dubuque, Iowa, a town that pretty much told us they didn't want us to be there. Hmm. And it was nothing for people to yell, you know, go back to Africa, you know, call me the N word called me monkey, all these things. People throwing bananas at you, whatever the case might be. So I'm walking to the gym because I just want to get there. This group of men are driving past me. They're screaming stuff at me. And I look long enough to observe. Who's there to see if I'm in danger. True. But I just keep walking and then they stop. They pull over these men get outta the car and they're all older men, probably 30, 40, 50 years old. I'm 18 at the time. Big guys they're screaming stuff at me, but I promise you all I'm hearing is Char's no ordinary love. Right. You know? Cause cuz I'm like, okay, focus on sh focus on sh focus on sh and then this man has this bottle. It was this clear. It was a bottle and I could see through it. And it looked like it had yellow liquid in it. And I'm figuring it's just Gatorade, right?
Erin (21:45):
No
Jason (21:45):
Gatorade, liquor, beer, whatever.
Erin (21:47):
No, no know.
Jason (21:49):
And he throws it at me, hits me in dead center of my chest. And I look down, I happen to have a white shirt on and my shirt is just covered in this yellow liquid. And then I realize it's urine. Yeah.
Erin (22:02):
That
Jason (22:02):
This man had in a bottle. And I don't know if he was just driving around. Who does it? I don't know. He was driving around waiting to see, you know, what, whatever African American, Asian, Hispanic person that he came across. And I only knew was urine because it got in my mouth.
Erin (22:20):
Oh my gosh.
Jason (22:22):
I would like to tell you that I stood there because I'm a big fan of, you know, eighties action movies. Like would've, you know, done whatever, probably turned over the car. Sebastian Sloan. Would've beat them up. I ran because I was scared. Hmm. And I'll never forget going to, you know, running home. I'm embarrassed that I'm ran. Yeah. I'm embarrassed. And I had gotten literally on and I'm just screaming. I'm telling my mom that I'm just, I hate being here. Why did we move here? They told us up front. They didn't want us. And we still moved here. My mom just being the warrior that she is. She tells me to take my shirt off. Go downstairs, get
Erin (23:03):
Whoa. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason (23:08):
My bedroom was down in the basement. So I went down stairs, took my clothes off. The shower. I'll never forget this. The shower is running and I'm literally in the mirror and I don't cry. Just not a cry. Yeah. Plus I'm watching for Gump. I'm just not, and
Erin (23:24):
It's not a yeah. Sally field. She'll get you every time. Okay. Sally and
Jason (23:31):
Bubba. It's not a, it's not a machismo thing. It's just more of, it's not a big crier, but I remember looking in the mirror, I'm literally brushing my teeth to the point where I'm scared that my teeth are going to bleed. I'm trying to list Aine and then I'm brushing my teeth again. I'm embarrassed. I got tears coming down. My eyes, I in the shower. And I'm thinking to myself, I don't know who the hell to talk to about this.
Erin (23:55):
Yeah.
Jason (23:56):
Went upstairs. My mom and I had a very good conversation. And if you ever met my mom, she's a about stoic as you possibly can get. But part of the reason why she's stoic is because what I was going through in that moment is what she lived through her entire life. So her whole thing was, I need to level set with my son. I need to acknowledge his hurt. I need acknowledge his fear, but I also gotta make sure that I don't set my son off to the point where he, he does something foolish and he goes to jail and ends up as another statistic. So it's, it's the balancing act of a black parent. I'm saying all that because that's what I take readers through in the book is the only way I truly believe if I stood around and said all day long, we should get along. We should get along. It's why diversity programs sometimes don't work because we're speaking to the theory of diversity, but we're not speaking to the actuality of human connectivity.
Erin (24:55):
Yeah. Right.
Jason (24:56):
And when you start speaking to the, the aspect to the nature of human connectivity, which is, I have a story, you have a story, but we're not going to understand each other to our stories meet. They don't have to match. They just have to meet when they meet. Now we can start to have a real dialogue.
Erin (25:13):
Oh my gosh. Well let just say something. That story met me at a very I a crier. And I, First of all, I just say, Tru thank you. Because to have to RET, well, I know you wrote that in the book and then to have to retell that story. And I know, you know, you're talking on podcasts, you're doing interviews. You're retelling that yes. Over and over.
Jason (25:40):
Yes.
Erin (25:41):
And that takes the level of just pure, just selflessness to do that. So thank you. Because that was hard for me to hear. I'm a white woman. We could, you know that and I, I, my, my heart goes out to you. I just hurts. I hate that. I hate that. That's the life that you had to live. Thank you. And I hate, and I appreciate you sharing that. I'm sorry. I haven't gotten this emotional on this show ever before, but I'm so glad that you're able to take that pain and that hurt and use it to help people and organizations and take what we're dealing with in today's in, in 2022, we're so far are behind with these conversations. Yes. So far behind, but I'm so grateful that you're able to use that and, and use it as fuel instead of storing it in a place where, you know, and I think I'm a mom to a little boy and yes, he is white, but I, I, I just empathize with your mom having to have that fear and, and to collect herself stoically, like you said, that's just such a heroic part on her part to, to take that and actually turn that into who you are today.
Erin (27:03):
Cause she, in those moments, she thought about your future and the, and the, and the brain that you're going to continue to evolve and links to your mom. Cause look at you now. I mean, look, Hey, look at you now, like you just doing good for the world. Thank you. And you took some really things in your life. Like that story of the bottle will never leave my me, my memory, I, you, and you paint a very vivid picture of it. I can see you brushing your teeth. I can just, I pictured all of it. And I know that you're telling it because you have to get us to this place in order for change to happen. And I think a lot of teams and, and, you know, improve it serves companies and teams and, and leaders who deeply care about their people. And I truly believe that these conversations were happening before 2020, but not like this.
Erin (28:00):
Yes. And I'm so grateful that they are. And I know a lot of leaders shy away from it, right? They, yes. And I, the one thing we talk about, especially in improv, cause improv is something that takes people out of their comfort zones or, but we do it through this laughter levity positivity lens. But in order to do that, we have to create a safe space. Yes. And in order to have these conversations, you have to have a safe space, right? For the team to feel safe for everyone, every different race on that team to feel like they can actually have a conversation with people who are on the out group, right? They're not in the end group, they're many different people,
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Improve it. Fam are you feeling stagnant at work? Are you frustrated by the lack of connection and the shortage of creativity when it comes to working in this hybrid world, if this sounds like you then join us for a live preview of our interactive improv based programs, including a sample of our laugh break, a sneak peek into our pre-work launched earlier this year and spoiler alert, it's pretty funny. And a brief breakdown of our effective communication workshop. Now we'll show you in one hour, the full improved experience. So you can communicate, inspire and motivate your team. Moving forward work, join us on Tuesday, March 29th, from 1230 to 1:30 PM. Eastern for our live showcase, the link to sign up is in the show notes, come try out the improved experience and see how our work can improve your team's hybrid world.
Erin (29:50):
If a listener, a leader listening today needs to create a safe space. They don't have it yet. What is one way that they could get this safe space or create this safe space for their team to discuss bias racism, to discuss these things? How do you, how can you create it if it's not there?
Jason (30:11):
Yeah. wonderful question be, and it's, it's sort of, it's a wonderful question with a loaded answer, right? Because we live in this day and age of the cancel culture
Erin (30:23):
That totally
Jason (30:24):
People are so scared to say the wrong thing that they choose not to say anything. Right?
Erin (30:29):
That's it.
Jason (30:30):
But there's a historical basis to this. It's what I have found is that historically, when I say historically, I'm saying like right around the time when white people stay up lynching black people and then having a picnic as they were sitting underneath the lynched body of a black person, right? So we're talking maybe let's say late sixties, early seventies, there was this idea that if we were going to be a anti-racist society, we just don't talk about
Erin (31:04):
Right. What
Jason (31:05):
Happened as a result of that is you have white people. And again, I'm not saying this to offend, I'm saying this based on my experiences. And I'm going to say this really based on my experiences within the corporate arena.
Erin (31:18):
Yeah.
Jason (31:18):
You have white leaders who have all the education in the world, have all the technical skills in the world. They have, they've done performance coaching. They have all of these things and they're advanced from that perspective. But when it comes to conversations of race, they are so remedial because they're not having these conversations at work because you don't talk about race at work. They're not having these conversations at home because for many people, they don't live around anybody who doesn't look like them,
Erin (31:50):
Right?
Jason (31:51):
The white, the people they go to church with are white. And so now of a sudden you have these organizations, especially after the George Floyd moment, you have all these organizations pushing diversity. The problem is if you're not getting so one thing that the brain hate brain hates change. Fundamentally part of the challenge with change is if I'm going through a change that puts my brain into a threat state, because I wanna know that what my work environment was like on Monday is exactly how it's gonna be on Tuesday.
Erin (32:20):
Now
Jason (32:21):
You're moving away from, you know, the, the numbers of work you're moving away from the structure of work. And you're saying, guess what? Diversity matters. Yeah.
Erin (32:30):
So
Jason (32:31):
We push these diversity initiatives, but you're not getting buy-in from the people who are directly impacted by those diversity initiatives. And I'm not saying the, the faces of color that you're bringing in. I'm not saying I'm not talking about diversity from whatever other metric you wanna gauge in. I'm saying from the very people who are now in charge of managing diversity through their teams, if you don't get their buy in and buying often means something along the lines of we're going to do diversity, but we want you to be a part of this. So how can we make this more palatable for you? Because if you don't make it more palatable, but theoretically everyone should embrace diversity. We get that. But the reality is not everybody embraces diversity because that might mean maybe I'm out of a job that might mean, gosh, I'm going to say the wrong thing, Tyron. And I'm gonna offend Tyron. And I don't wanna be known as a racist. Right. So I just choose not to say anything. If we're going to talk about diversity at work, just like, if we're going to talk about diversity at home, let's be honest. And if I'm a leader and now let of a sudden, I'm in charge of creating this safe space for everybody. Even, even including those people who don't look like me or don't behave like me, some of that comes with just being vulnerable.
Erin (33:47):
Yeah.
Jason (33:48):
Just saying I don't have all the answers.
Erin (33:51):
Yeah.
Jason (33:51):
I don't know what your experience like. I'll give you an example as a consultant, I'm on the road 200 days of the year. I am proud to say that when I found out my company in 2005, a consulting, Inc. I did it on a wink and a prayer, a wink because I had an eyelash in my eye prayer because I have no idea where I was going. Right. I'm just being honest with you. Right.
Erin (34:11):
I just, I love it. I just wanted,
Jason (34:13):
I just wanted enough work so that I could pay the mortgage.
Erin (34:16):
Yeah, totally.
Jason (34:17):
No idea that I was gonna grow my company from this little bit of nothing to now the top 5% of employee labor relations consultants in the country. It's been an incredible ride. But along those lines, I can't tell you the number of times that I've walked into environments where I was the only, you know, I'm in a room full of people who don't look like me, who often are white and are male. And they're trying to figure out who exactly I am to the point where one executive actually came up to me and said you can bring in the food. Now. I, I kid you not, I kid you not. And I had been doing work for his company for the better part of three months. He and I had just never met each other.
Erin (34:59):
Wow.
Jason (34:59):
And I looked at him and I was going to get, and I said, okay, let's play with this.
Erin (35:06):
Good for you. Wow, Jason, I
Jason (35:08):
Went out cause the caterers were in the process of unwrapping everything. And I went to the gentleman who happened to be an African American owner of this catering company. And I said, brother, I just need you to roll with me on this. You don't know me, but just let me help you look
Erin (35:26):
At you improvising right now, by the way. Okay. Look at this. Keep going, keep going. No, I
Jason (35:31):
Appreciate you. So we brought in the food, I put everyone's plate out and some of the stakeholders were on the table, knew me. And they're like, Jason, what are you doing? I go, just roll with me. Just roll said, everyone's, you know, played out, put their silverware. I was messing the silverware part out. Cause I didn't know. Right,
Erin (35:49):
Right.
Jason (35:49):
And it got everyone's drink. And I went up to and said, sir, what would you like to drink? He was like, I like ice tea. Porto's glass of ice T everyone's sitting around and it's just uncomfortable. He was completely clueless as to what was happening. But the other stakeholders knew what was happening and they were completely uncomfortable. But here's the El another element. If you are going to be an ally, if you're going to create a safe space for people who don't look like you be willing to speak up.
Erin (36:16):
Yes.
Jason (36:16):
Do the, that uncomfortable silence thing that so many people do where they come to you afterwards and they say, I'm so sorry you went through this. No, you're not sorry. I went through it because if you were sorry I was going through it. You would've spoken up because I needed your power.
Erin (36:29):
Yes. Because
Jason (36:30):
In the moment, power less.
Erin (36:32):
Wow.
Jason (36:33):
So after, after everybody eats and I ate to the side, now it's time for me to start my presentation.
Erin (36:42):
Oh my gosh. Okay. What happened? I got it. What did the guy do?
Jason (36:48):
The executive went white as a ghost.
Erin (36:51):
Oh my God.
Jason (36:53):
He looked to other folks like, why didn't you tell me?
Erin (36:57):
Wow.
Jason (36:59):
I went, gave an hour long presentation. It was the best presentation. I think I've ever given.
Erin (37:04):
Yeah. Cause you were BA that was like guided light right there. You were just this.
Jason (37:09):
It was like I was educating, but I was also showing you Don't play me just because I don't look like you.
Erin (37:18):
Oh, oh my what? A lesson.
Jason (37:22):
And he apologized afterward and I was, you know, I walked this fine line between telling him you can kiss one butt and I belong in this room.
Erin (37:38):
Yes you do.
Jason (37:39):
And I legitimately helped you save three of your departments through the work that I did as the employee whisper. I belong in this room because what I didn't share with you was I had three other consultants with me who worked directly for me. He didn't ask them to bring in the food. Now somebody can make the argument that since the, or the executive knew that the owner of the catering company was African American, that maybe he got us confused, but let's be real. It's the exact same thing that happened to my church. I'm 6, 3, 275 pounds. I don't look like a lot of people. I am built like a linebacker. I don't look like a lot unless I'm not in a NFL.
Erin (38:23):
I, I am. I am. I am literally like you are a felt, man. I'm looking at you right now. Yes. Yes. Well,
Jason (38:29):
No, thank you for that. The owner of the company, the owner of the catering company who also is African American was five, four, maybe 165 silk wet.
Erin (38:39):
So insane, so insane.
Jason (38:42):
But it speaks to if, if there's a teachable moment in this, it speaks to the fact that oftentimes we have a hard time differentiating people from different groups. If we've never had experience groups, now it's not so easy. If you want to talk to somebody about diversity or you wanna talk to leaders about how to become more open with diversity, it's not as easy as saying, Hey, just go out, hang out with some black people, go out and hang out with some Asian people. It's not that easy. It's first. Let's be vulnerable about who we are and how we're showing up. Like when you talk about the fact that as I'm, you know, as I'm sharing these stories through podcasts, as I was writing this book, I have to revisit these stories every time I share it and it still hurts,
Erin (39:25):
I'm sure. I'm sure.
Jason (39:27):
But other on the other side of that, I think the mistake that people of color often make, as it relates to dealing with white people is we're consistently pointing our finger. White people saying you are the ones with the problems. You're the ones with the biases. You're the ones with the prejudice. You're the reason why everything's wrong in this country or in this world. But we don't recognize that just as I'm pointing a finger at you, I have to point a finger at myself because we have biases. We have prejudice. We have feelings that are not, that oftentimes defy the experiences of other people. That just because somebody asked me to show them my ID doesn't mean that they're racist. Maybe that's just company policy, especially if they apply that across the board. But if my mind is telling me, you're only asking me for my ID because I'm black, but yet she asks for ideas from white people, Asian people, Hispanic people, gay people, lay people going down the line. So we're so we're so eager to rush to the judgment of someone's being racist. When the reality is that we're not aware of the stories that are coloring our experiences with other people.
Erin (40:36):
Wow. Let me just say this my brain. I'm not gonna say my mind. My brain is blown today. I am truly like, I feel like this was so insightful. You are a fantastic speaker. You are a fantastic storyteller. The stories that you share are so tied to the point, you're You? So you a founder calling friend.
Jason (41:04):
Hey, thank you. Thank
Erin (41:05):
You. You have, this is don't. Don't quit your day job please. Right? Okay. Okay. This is this is so needed and so necessary and something that I hope everybody listening today can at least walk, walk away with one thing that they want to think about and implement. And I think this conversation around these safe spaces and conversations between just leaders and, and vulnerability are so important. The vulnerability piece that you mentioned sometimes just saying, you know what, I'm learning too. I'm figuring it out.
Jason (41:42):
Yes.
Erin (41:44):
That is. We're just human beings. All con we're the, the point of life is to be connected. Yes. And to feel like we are connected through this universe. I'm, I'm very, I'm, I'm a spiritual hube and I'm very much of this one universal love, right? I'm just, I, we are all connected. Yes. But we all have to make it a space where everybody want, can feel connected and feel like they can belong. And so that vulnerability, you mentioned just saying, I, as a leader, don't know the answer, I'm feeling this way. And also just sharing that we're all doing this processing and learning at the same time. And just, I think it sped up the learning that a lot of, of us had to do in 20, in 2020, the learning was steep, right. For a lot of us. And I'm just really gracious and, and GRA and grateful that you have chosen to take the path of putting these stories out there, using them as learning opportunities for others to see that these conversations matter, especially at work with teams and people, because we should be surrounded by our out group, right. We're gonna be surrounded by our out group. We, we should. That's the, that is the world. And I just so many thoughts came in my head, as you were talking about that, I don't have enough time to go into it, but I, I am just really grateful for you, Jason. And the work that you have given now, I want you to do this. I want you to tell our audience, if they wanna hire the employee whisper, where they can do that, how they can find you all of the things.
Jason (43:26):
Absolutely. Thank you so much for that. You can go to my website, hire gci.com. I will say it again. Hire gci.com. You can find me on Twitter at labor diversity, or you can find me on Instagram and I'm still learning the Instagram world. So just roll with me. I think it's jason.career. I think it's just that, but definitely could hire me through my website and I'm always on LinkedIn. I just want a conversation and I love the work that we do because the more conversations we can have, the better going to be as people. That's just, it's the only way to get through this.
Erin (44:00):
That's it? That's it. And I'm new to the Instagram world too. I'm a feel flu. So you're not alone there. It's hard. It's a hard world. It's a hard world, but reach out to Jason, have a conversation. I'm so grateful for this one. So thank you for the work that you are doing for conversations then that are moving so many mountains. You don't even know. You don't even know how many lives you're touching. So thank you for, for putting this story and these stories that you told out there and for coming on our show, Jason, you are awesome.
Jason (44:32):
Hey, you are so awesome. Aaron. You're you're killing it. Keep, this is awesome. Oh
Erin (44:38):
Right. We'll talk to soon.
Jason (44:40):
All right. Take care. You too,
Erin (44:50):
Improve it! Fam I hope you are as moved as I am today. By this conversation. Jason is a guiding light in this world. He is the employee whisperer, and he is telling these stories that are painful to tell, to help organizations and the people within them thrive. So here's your homework. I want you to listen to today's show. And I want you, if we would go back to that conversation that Jason told us about the stakeholder or the CEO who was thinking he was a part of, of the catering company and no one around him spoke up. That story is still sticking in my brain. I want you to create a space within your team for people to feel safe, to speak up.
Erin (45:49):
And if you can't take on that responsibility, I want you to be the one who speaks up, who finds an opportunity who's vulnerable and who puts himself out there when they see racism or bias at play. I wanna thank you for this conversation and prove it fam this conversation is definitely something that needs to be talked more. It's something that I'm so grateful that Jason is doing and putting into the world. And I'm so happy to have had this opportunity to share it with you. So keep failing, keep improving because the world needs that special. It that only you can bring, I'll see you here next time. Bye. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy. You were along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star review and subscribe to this show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if your re feel in today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I wanna leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.