Episode 101: The Rise of the Empathetic Leader with Career Development Visionary, Ryan McCrea
Leaders – are you looking to become more kindhearted leader? If so, we have the perfect guest for you. Ryan McCrea is a compassionate, heartfelt, and dare I say, empathetic leader who will guide you with a self-assessment on emotional intelligence and how you can lead with empathy.
Ryan McCrea is focused on making an impact by helping organizations maximize and develop talent through creative people solutions. He’s passionate about helping others own their career and providing thought leadership on strategic talent management, leadership development, mentoring, team dynamics and culture building.
Ryan is currently the Head of Career Development at Atlassian, where he focuses on career development and mobility programs for a growing global technology company with more than 8,000 employees. Prior to Atlassian, Ryan was Vice President – Manager of Talent Development at Commerce Bank. In this position, he launched a corporate-wide professional development program, while overseeing the strategy around people and leadership growth.
He's seen how empathy can transform teams, and he wants to show you the way. Get your notebooks ready, and hit play on this heartfelt episode.
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Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
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Episode 101 Transcription
Erin (00:01):
Walk a mile in my shoes. Can you understand me? Can you hear where I'm coming from? These are the things and the lessons and the, the necessary things that we need to be saying to our teams at this time is today's topic improve it! Fam and I am so excited that you are here for this. We have a fantastic guest. I wanna share with you just the definition of empathy. It's a noun. And it means the ability to understand and to share the feelings of another today's guest. Ryan McCrea is doing left and right. He is literally one of the most compassionate leaders and is currently the head of career development at Atlassian, where he focuses on career development and mobility programs for growing global technology company with more than 8,000 employees. Now, he just started this role when we recorded this about three weeks ago.
Erin (01:05):
But prior to this, Ryan was vice president and the manager of talent development at commerce bank, where he launched a corporate wide professional development program while overseeing the strategy around people and leadership growth. You'll hear him talk about this on the show, but he has certification in situational leadership, the four stages of psychological safety disc M BTI, and he's also a social and emotional intelligence coach. He received a bachelor of science in psychology from the university of Southern Indiana and a master of arts and industrial and organizational psychology from Southern I Illinois university Edwards bill. So today's show is for the leader who is wanting to lead a more empathetic approach to their people. He's gonna talk to us about getting to know our people as much as possible, knowing their values, when, what motivates them, how to go deeper on our connections with our team in this virtual world.
Erin (02:12):
That piece is huge. So stay tuned for that. If you are leading a remote team, this is fantastic. And then we dive into an activity that we actually do here at improve it, called empathy, where we use improvisation to really put ourselves in the shoes of the other person. So I'm gonna stop talking. Let's hear from the amazing Ryan McCree, are you a leader or change maker inside of your business organization or corporation? Are you looking for new, innovative ways to drive morale through the roof? Are you looking for fun and exciting icebreakers team building exercises in activities that will foster team growth, friendships, loyalty, and completely transform your organization from the inside out? Have you been searching for a fun and unique way to create change instead of the same old, dry, boring leadership books and ice breakers that aren't actually working? Hi, I'm Erin Diehl, business improv, entertainer, failfluencer, and professional zoombie who is ready to help you improve it. My mission in life is to help you develop teams and leaders through play improv and experiential learning. In this podcast, we will deep dive into professional development team building effective communication, networking, press skills, leadership training, how to think more quickly on your feet and everything in between. We have helped everyone from fortune 500 companies to small mom and pop shops transform their business, their leadership, and their people through play. So grab your chicken hat. We are about to have some fun, welcome to improve it! The podcast.
Erin (04:13):
Ryan, welcome to the improve it! Podcast. We are so excited to have you.
Ryan (04:21):
I'm excited to be here, Erin. Thanks for having me on!
Erin (04:25):
This is a dream, you know, you came to us through a previous guest, Andy Stuart, who we love. And when I, when he introduced me to you, I said, Ryan, this is happening. You're coming on the show. So I'm thrilled to chat with you. I know the improve it! Fam is gonna be thrilled to hear from you. So let's, let's give him some insight into Ryan. Let's let's get to know Ryan a little bit. This is a fun sort of icebreaker we do. And a lot of our workshops. So it's called five facts and it has a little Diddy that goes with it. It goes five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts. And then once I say that, you're gonna just shoot out five facts about yourself that we couldn't find on your resume, your bio, your LinkedIn profile, just like fun things about Ryan that we should know. Okay. Are you ready?
Ryan (05:17):
I love it. Let's do it.
Erin (05:18):
Okay, here we go. Five facts, five facts, five facts, five facts. Here we go. Ryan one.
Ryan (05:25):
I love fashion. I actually have tons of shoes, tons of scarfs and a ridiculous amount of lapel, pins and hats.
Erin (05:32):
Yes. I love a lapel. Okay. Two,
Ryan (05:35):
I love a Frank Lloyd Wright in mid-century modern. So I've actually stayed in a couple of his houses that he's designed. And I visit the all over the country.
Erin (05:43):
Three.
Ryan (05:44):
I love tea. Like tea is just one of my favorite things. And I really didn't like it. Hot tea, not cold tea. And I didn't really like it until about five years ago,
Erin (05:53):
Four,
Ryan (05:55):
I grew up learning martial arts. So my dad was a TaeKwonDo teacher. So that was helped, helped me a lot with just really making sure that I had good discipline. And I learned like Kung Fu and karate and Kenpo and judo and a whole bunch of other styles.
Erin (06:10):
What? Okay. Five,
Ryan (06:12):
I have two cats and one of them is a Scottish four. And you just don't see a whole lot of them. She's short and she's got these little bitty bitty ears and she looks like an owl.
Erin (06:22):
Aw, what's her name?
Ryan (06:24):
Her name is Zoe. She's adorable. She looks like a little Teddy bear. You wanna just snuggle her.
Erin (06:29):
I love that so much. I had a plant named Zoe Zoe day plant tell, but she, she didn't make it. She did not make it, but Zoey, the cat sounds like a winner and I love that. We're gonna need a visual. We're gonna, I'm gonna need a visual in just a moment, but I'm thrilled to know you, Ryan. I feel like you're a cool, a cool guy. And there's just so much to know about the work that you're doing. You're a people leader. You care about the people that you serve, which is the coolest thing about my job is a, I get to work with people like you, who just care about people. So I wanna ask you that you're such an advocate for personal professional growth. What led you to this field of work?
Ryan (07:11):
You know, it actually started with, when I went to college, I, I was really, I, I really wanted to start out when I was, I wanted to be a chiropractor, which was kind of strange, but I did care about people. I just want, thought about it in a different way. Well, I took a couple classes and decided, okay, that really wasn't for me. And I ended up switching over to psychology and a lot of my professors wanted me to either one, be a professor and then the other ones wanted me to go be a clinical psychologist or, or a psychiatrist. And I'm like, I don't think I wanna do either of those things. When I really kind of examined myself, it was like, okay, I love psychology. I love what it means. I love teamwork. I love helping people. I love helping people better in a work environment, but I, I didn't really know about this whole area of psychology, which is where I ended up getting my degree in. And I think once I took my like 1 0 1 course in undergrad, I was like, oh wow, okay. Like this is it. This feels right. It's focused on data. It's that idea of bringing psychological concepts into the work environment and making the work environment better. And that just spoke to me and like the light went off and I was like, okay, this is me. This is perfect. I'm gonna start to jumping into this and figuring out how I can make organizations better.
Erin (08:22):
I love it. You know what? Everybody needs a good chiropractor. I, I actually have one. Right. Remember I told you before we hit record, I'm like, I'm working on my posture. It's cuz I've been to the chiro, but I feel like this is your calling. This is what you were meant to do. And we really love, I mean, I'll say this from my perspective, the world needs more leaders. Like you, it needs more people who understand human beings. This really leads us into the topic I wanted to have you on the show today about which is empathy. And just the, the nature of which you just talked about, why you chose this field is empathy. And I, I, I know that there's probably been a lot of challenges along the way, but what, what would you say you've noticed as the greatest joy in your career? What's been the greatest joy as talent development leader that you've had so far?
Ryan (09:16):
Oh, I think for me that's easy. I think it's seeing the light turn on for people. So whether I'm, you know, in a class or I'm putting a program out or I'm helping people find a mentor or I'm either coaching people or mentoring people that are on my team, I think seeing that light turn on for somebody and seeing somebody change their mind and change their opinion. I think the other part of that too, is just seeing them be successful. I think for me, one of the proudest moments was seeing my people get promoted and helping them walk through that process. So, I mean, those were the things that really mean the most to me, whether it's someone that was on my team or someone I've met on LinkedIn, then I get a chance to talk to just offering that guidance. But I, I love to see people being successful in their careers and successful in their lives.
Erin (10:00):
I love it so much. And it's, I mean, truly that's, that is the Testament of a great leader right there that obviously you care about your own role, your own growth, but you're really caring about your people and their growth trajectory, which is empathy. And it's fine. So what, what would you say empathy means to you?
Ryan (10:21):
I think it's really getting a chance to dig in and understand somebody as much as you possibly can. I think that's a big, big part of it. So when I talk about like career development with people and when I kind of espouse my thoughts on that with other individuals, my model is really around getting a chance to know people as much as possible. And I think you have to know them in a lot of different ways. So you have to one, you have to, you know, know what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses or opportunities for improvement. And think you need to know that. But I think there's some really important things like knowing their values, knowing what motivates them. I think that's a really, really important aspect of it too. I also really dig into a lot in talking a lot about what experiences do they wanna get. So I think in this world, and even when we were little, think about when you were little, like when you were little, someone probably asked you what you wanted to be when you grew up, right?
Erin (11:10):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was always a talk show host. Here I am. Okay. Keep going.
Ryan (11:15):
Well, you're almost there, I think. Yeah. I think you are gonna probably be talk show host one day.
Erin (11:19):
Thank you. Keep going. Okay. Keep going. I'm sorry to derail this guess, but keep going, keep going goals, goals.
Ryan (11:26):
So we, we are kind of taught this idea of, to really focus on roles our whole life. And we get really hung up in this idea that, okay, it's all about roles. It's all about being a, you know, chiropractor or a talk show host or, or being a baseball player. But what we don't really talk a lot about is what are the experiences that we really want? Cause once we are talking about experiences, it just kind of opens up our idea of what we could potentially do. Cause once you know that I'm really interested in doing this, this or this well, that opens it up, instead of it just being about taking your manager's job or just being about taking that one job that you've seen that one time, but what are all the different places that I could get these experiences? I think it just opens us up and gets us an opportunity to really look at the world a lot different lay than we would've before.
Ryan (12:14):
And so I think that is a big, big part of this is really just understanding that piece of it, understanding yourself, probably digging in, knowing them, knowing them as a person, getting a chance to know about their lives, their home life, you know, their kids, their family. I think zoom has been an interesting way of really getting a chance to get to know this. Cuz I will tell you, I knew my team pretty well. That's something I cared about as you kind of mentioned, but I feel like once we went to zoom two years ago, I saw a whole nother side of them that we haven't seen.
Erin (12:43):
Yes.
Ryan (12:43):
And I think there's a big, big reason for that too.
Erin (12:46):
Yeah. Okay. What do you think is the big, big reason to go into that?
Ryan (12:50):
I think we had to remove, so professionalism is a very, a complicated word. Yes. And I think it's got a complicated past and when we think about professionalism, I think we think about, you know, facts and results and the stoicism that comes with being a professional. And we all had to kind of take that mask off and throw it away. Yes. When we went to zoom. So you got a chance to see people in their homes, you got a chance them with their kids and with their family members and their pets jumping up on the screen or their dogs barking in the background and seeing what they had up on their screen and at other things that they had on their shelves in their home. And you just got a chance to learn about them in a much deeper way. Yeah. In a way that you probably didn't learn about them in the work environment because we all, whether we probably think about it or not are probably wearing some sort of mask.
Ryan (13:38):
Yeah. Cause we're being told, what does professionalism look like? And I think we're starting to see a big shift. Even the, that big, huge hashtag that, you know, I am professional on LinkedIn recently. I think that idea of changing this idea of what professionalism really means, or maybe kind of re owning it, kind of grabbing it and making it, what it really needs to be in today, I think is a big, big part of that. So I think zoom has actually helped in a lot of ways if managers are actually doing something with it, like if they are leaning in, if they're finding out, if they're asking those questions, if they're being intentional about making some of those connections, when they're, when they're seeing people in zoom in their own home environments, then they can learn a lot more about them.
Erin (14:19):
Oh my God, Ryan it's like, we were meant to be friends. I sometimes I think when I get excited because here's oh, so do I OK. See again, this is why this is why so, so many thoughts on this and what you just said, which I think was beautiful. I thought this for years, because as you know, we use improv to train people on power skills. So we're constantly breaking down barriers when it comes to communication. When it comes to this hypothetical mask that I think people wore to work before 2020. And it's such a just a nod a yes. And to what you were saying that it's absolutely correct. I've seen some of the leaders that I got the pleasure of working with and knowing really become more vulnerable, become more empathetic if you will with, is what we're talking about today.
Erin (15:13):
Become more real with the way that they show up, because guess what, they were forced to you can't put on a business suit and walk out of your Glassdoor office in this 52nd story of, you know, a huge building and downtown, wherever you have to show up, you know, in a, I'm in a closet right now, you could, you have to show up in a closet, you have to show up with your kids, screaming in the background, your, your dog nodding at your leg, like whatever it is you're showing up. And it's actually, I think the pause that the world, unfortunately, of all the things they're were so many negative things about this pandemic that I wouldn't wish on anyone. And I wouldn't wish the health piece of it on anybody, but the, the pausing of it, the stillness, the reevaluation and the, and the raw grace and realness that it brought us, I think was really beautiful.
Erin (16:09):
And I think I, I, I love that you mentioned that and I, I, I wanna ask you too, because a lot of our listeners today are leading teams a lot are still remote plans to be remote, no plans to go back to the office. So what is a way, if you're a leader listening today that you would give them advice to really reach out and get to know your team, what's a, what is a go to approach that has worked for you in the past that you've used to get to know your team on a deeper level and make it feel really genuine?
Ryan (16:43):
Yeah. I think that's a great question to me. It's still about that intentionality piece. It, cuz I think leaders in the past might have had that occasional one-on-one with people and that was okay. Whether it was weekly or biweekly or monthly and it's just not enough right now. I don't think it's good for people's health. They need more, they need that connection. So I think one just increasing the amount that you are actually connecting with them. I think you have to go deeper to so it's not enough and it's, it's better. It's good to say, Hey, how are you doing? But it's, that's not really enough. I think, you know, when you, when you say, how are they doing and they, you ask 'em that question and they tell you, well, I'm doing kind of okay today or I'm stressed about this or I'm like dig in, find out more ask.
Ryan (17:27):
I think one of the things is leaders that we are really responsible to do is to try to remove stress and barriers for people. And so how can we help them? And maybe that is, they need an hour or two in that afternoon to do something or they need something else that looks like a different type of flexibility than they've had in the past, in their work. Maybe you need to encourage them to take more time off. Cause we are seeing people that are just working more and more and more because they're sitting at their desk. It's a wonderful thing to work from home. I'm now working fully remote in my new role, which is amazing and kind of almost very different for me. But it also gets really easy to start sliding into working 10, 11, 12 hour days because you're sitting there. So I think giving people permission to really understand and take that time for themselves so that they aren't letting this kind of just continue to get bigger and bigger and bigger and you're working more and more hours.
Ryan (18:17):
I think you have to give people the opportunity and empower them to say no when it comes to their schedule and that they really, really need to own it. I think that is a big, big, big part of this too, but you just have to listen. I think you have to listen cuz really, to me it is empathy's part of this. But I think as I've been thinking more about it, I think it's a drive towards a compassionate leader because I think empathy is part of it. I think vulnerability and appropriate level of vulnerability is a part of it. You had mentioned that too. And then I think listening and really making sure, making sure that we're kind of ramping up those skills. So that we're, we're leaning in and we're spending time really hearing what our people are saying and asking those follow up questions and figuring out how we can help them.
Erin (18:59):
I love everything that you just said. Yes, Sam. Yes. Sam, Deborah, but write it down improve it! Fam I know you, you are leader in your organization and you've realized that you need to up level your professional presence and pay particular attention to the power skills that could Excel your career. But you're having trouble finding a group of like-minded lifelong learners who can cheer on your growth and a learning method of that will keep you intrigued and wanting to learn more. As a result, you remain stagnant and you watch your peers soar in their careers. While you try to piece together fragments of leadership tools by Googling, reading, blur, ring business books, and attending conferences that leave you with a lot of idea, but no plan on how to implement. You're looking for a support system, a virtual mentor and cheerleader, an outside of the box, an interactive approach to learning skills that can help you fast track career success.
Erin (20:06):
I am personally inviting you to the first ever improve it! Virtual mastermind. This mastermind will give you the support, confidence, creativity, and bravery that you will need to up level your power skills and create next level growth in your career all while infusing laughter levity and positivity. Duh, here is what you get. ACE six month mastermind program each month, you're going to get one live power skill workshop, an e-learning course post-workshop that reinforces the learning a 60 minute accountability call with members of your cohort and mastermind and an ongoing slack community to share the wins, the best practices and receive an offer support on a daily and weekly basis. Oh my gosh. I would love to have you in this mastermind as a listener of the show, our application process starts on March 30th, 2022. It is application only. So you'll see a link to the application on our show notes, click that link apply today. The cohort starts at the beginning of May, 2022 and we'll end at the end of October, 2022. Come join the other members of the improved family, create connection and use your creativity for good to accelerate your career growth. You'll find the link to the apply in the show notes. I hope to see you soon in the improve it mastermind.
Erin (21:55):
This leads me to something that I real, I I'm op I'm asking you this, Ryan, are you open to doing an improv based activity with me? And again, I said it wasn't gonna challenge you, but this is a good one. This is an easier one. So this is something we called empathy. And we actually do this activity in one of our workshops on empathy and it's called empathy. And typically we're in person we're it sounds so cheesy, but we sit, sit facing each other. You and I would be in the same room. Our knees would be touching, which like in today's environment. I don't know if we can still do this as pre pandemic in person. Okay. So maybe we're six feet apart. Need, need a and what will happen is I'm gonna tell you a challenge that I'm having. I'm just gonna make one up. Okay. I'm just gonna tell you a challenge that I'm having as a leader and all you have to do is listen very intently to this. Okay. And I'll tell you, I'll give, I'll give away the gimmick here. What I'm gonna ask you to do is to repeat back to me what I said in first person.
Erin (23:05):
Okay. So I'll just let me let me think of a challenge really quick. All right. I'm gonna talk about it. Let me think about a challenge that I have here. It is. Here it is. Okay. Any questions before we go? Any questions?
Ryan (23:19):
I'm totally game. Remind me first person. I am so horrible with first and second and third person.
Erin (23:24):
You're just gonna say everything I say as if you're me. So you're gonna repeat it back. Instead of being like Erin said, you're gonna say exactly what I said. Basically. You're just repeating what I said. So I'm gonna say like, you know, I'm having a really hard time with some limiting beliefs. And so AF I'm just gonna give you like three or four sentences and then you'll repeat it back to me in the first person. Or we can change this where you give me the challenge and I repeat it back. Let's do that. How about that? To make it a little bit easier. So I show you how the game works. So basically just tell me something, that's your challenge with right now? And then we're gonna start this activity, empathy, where I am listening, responding back as if I am you okay. So tell me a challenge about you.
Ryan (24:10):
I am spending a lot of time reading through pages and pages and pages of confluence, and I'm just going down the rabbit hole almost every day.
Erin (24:18):
Okay. And I'm gonna repeat this back to you. I am spending a lot of time reading pages and pages of confluence and I'm is going through this rabbit hole every day. Say, gimme another challenge.
Ryan (24:30):
I am learning a lot from many, many people, but I also feel like I don't know enough yet to really give as many pieces of advice as I would like to in my new job.
Erin (24:43):
Okay. I'm learning a lot from a lot of P but I also feel like I just don't know enough yet to give as much advice as I would like to in my new job. Okay. Can I'll try, I'll give you a challenge and you just repeat it back. Just repeat back what I said. OK. Let's do it. I am challenged with feeling like I don't have enough hours in the day, get everything I want to get done because I also want to spend time with my son.
Ryan (25:15):
I am challenged with feeling like there aren't enough hours in the day because I would like to spend more time with my son. Yeah.
Erin (25:24):
And I block off my time. I schedule my, my calendar accordingly, but there never seems like, it feels like enough.
Ryan (25:34):
I block off my schedule and I try to make time, but I still don't feel like it's ever enough.
Erin (25:39):
Yeah. Okay. See, now can we talk through this? I did it to you. That's
Ryan (25:44):
So hard.
Erin (25:45):
Isn't it so hard, but let's talk. Can we talk through this? What, when you were repeating back what I said in first person as if you were me, what did that feel like to you?
Ryan (25:58):
It just feels wrong for me because I do so much coaching with people. So I'm listening to people a lot, but then I'm, I probably would be paraphrasing it on the way back. It's like case. So Erin, I think I heard that, you know, time is kind of a challenge for you. Like you're trying to figure out how to balance your calendar and this, and try to make sure that you've got enough time for your son. So I think for me, it's hard because I'm probably thinking about it from a coaching mindset and I'd be listening to someone and I would be thinking about how I can make sure that I underst what they were saying. It's hard to try to think about it. Word for word, for what you said.
Erin (26:34):
Yeah. Okay. That is very interesting. And I totally get that because your brain, your brain specifically Ryan McCray's brain is trained to listen to understand, which is beautiful. Not to respond. I love that so much, but this activity is forced, you know, it's a forced activity, but can I say what I felt when I was repeating back your words? Sure. Cause I, cause I am, I'm trained. Similarly. I actually like, as I've filter, I wasn't trying to really memorize as much as understand when I was repeating back your words. But when I said, you know, I feel like I have, I've just taken in all this information and I feel like I don't have enough to give people advice. I filtered through. Like, I felt like I was you for a minute. It filtered, I was filtered through this lens of, he started this new role three weeks ago, he is coming into his own and this role, he has all this amazing experience, but he's still taking in the information that he needs to know about the company. So I kind of, I was like this like moment of like, wow, this is where he is. Right. I just like felt it. Did that happen for you at all?
Ryan (27:48):
Oh yeah. I felt like I was sitting in your closet. I felt like I was, I was sitting in your closet trying to live your life for a little while and, and what that looks like. And so I, I felt empathy for you as I would, because I was trying to think about what that would look like. Just, just paying extra special attention to your words.
Erin (28:07):
Yeah.
Ryan (28:08):
Made me think about that. So I love this activity for that because it's true. This is what as leaders, we should be listening to people intently to make sure that we really are understanding where they're coming from. Cause if we're not listening and if we're on our phone or if we're texting or if we're looking at slack, then we might not pick up up on just a small, tiny thing that they said or the way that they said it because we aren't listening to them.
Erin (28:33):
That's it? That's it. And that, that activity every time you know, we use this in like our sales training because it's so helpful for 'em sales consultant level to help somebody with their sales approach, because it really helps you understand your customer. We, this is a wonderful activity for any, any power skill that you're trying to teach someone on. But the moment that we did this activity for the very first time, and again, you know, we're over this platform here on video, it still works, but there is something also so magical of like sitting down face to face with a human being and listening and then repeating back what they said. And I wanna challenge any leader listening today to take that activity and try it with their team or just say, Hey, I'm gonna filter the, the conversation through this lens of, I am that person because when you take a moment and you walk in somebody else's shoes, you really understand, or, you know, whatever, it may be, heels, whatever, whatever you walk in, somebody else's shoes.
Erin (29:39):
And you feel that moment of like, like I felt when I was repeating back yours, like kind of the stress that comes with a new role and some of the limiting beliefs that might be there when it comes to like, how, how long is it gonna take me to get up to speed kind of a deal. And it's just such an interesting way of thinking about the needs of our people, which is what you're constantly doing. I appreciate you doing this activity with me. I told you at that front, I was like, there's no improv, but this is, you know, this was like an activity based on this truth and this realness that you are giving that people that you lead and the teams and the leaders that you're you're touching, and you really are touching lives with caring. You care so much. So let me ask you this. What if you could give one piece of advice to an improved family member listening today to become a more empathetic leader? What would it be?
Ryan (30:40):
I think it starts with self-assessment. So it's really understanding, you know, cuz this is a different skillset. Some people were really great at the skillset. When we think about listening, when we think about showing empathy, when we talk about being vulnerable, there's some people, I think like your podcast, you were talking about your previous leader. She's a great example of that, but not every leader lives in that mindset. They didn't grow up with that idea. And nobody told them in school that they should be thinking about empathy and power skills. They, you know, they told them that they need to be technically really good at what they are. So I think you have to do a little bit of self assessment for a bit when you're doing this, what are you good at? So maybe you're really good at listening, but maybe you're not really good at recognition and that's something you might need to work on more.
Ryan (31:26):
You know, maybe you are really good at giving people guidance when it comes to the work oriented pieces, but maybe you're kind of closed off and you don't really talk about it when you make mistakes or when you've struggled or maybe you don't ask for help enough from your team members. So I think it starts first with some real self awareness and then some real self assessment and some reflection because you have to know what you're good at and what you're not good at. And it may be even, even having some of those conversations with your team members and your peers to find out what you are really good at and what you're not. I think that's a big, big part of it. I think there's some real practical things that we can do too. I mean, there's a reason why I think because of everything that's happened, that we're starting to see things like emotional intelligence come up more, we're starting to see things like psychological safety come up more.
Ryan (32:18):
We we're starting to see the work of Brene brown, just go through the roof. And of course I know she's just got a new book that she's put out as well, too. So I mean, that's something that I think can be really helpful for people. So if that's an area and I've, I've talked to leaders a lot before that are very uncomfortable with this idea of emotions and emotions at work and what does that mean? And they just want everything to be just cut and dry about business and that's what it is. But the reality is you can't do that. You know, this people have emotions. Yeah. People are going to bring some of those to work. Sometimes they have experiences in lives and we have to be prepared to be able to do that. So, you know, maybe you go and spend some more time thinking or getting some training or in crucial conversations.
Ryan (32:58):
I think really digging into your emotional intelligence and understanding where you're at is a super, super beneficial thing. So I'm part of a group called the Institute for social emotional intelligence and I've got a certification through them. I'm a, I'm a certified is E coach. And one of the things that I often do with people that are interested in digging into this a little bit more is give them a self-assessment so I can understand what they think about themselves when it comes to this. But then as find a coach, whether anyone that you can actually go to that website, they have a whole bunch of different coaches available. You can find somebody that does this and maybe get some coaching in this area as well. If you really wanna dig deep in that there's a 360 assessment. So maybe you wanna give it to your team members, your peers, your managers find out, you know, where you really at with this.
Ryan (33:40):
I also think one of the leader factor has a really great psychological safety team assessment. So if this is something that you're worried about, you know, are you creating belonging on your team? Is there psychological safety on your team? Do you wanna dig in and understand this a little bit more there's tools and resources out there? That one is like a four different stages of, of looking at psychological safety in an organization and in a team. And so you can get a chance to do that assessment. And again, leader factor, I think is the group that does that. And, and they also have kind of certified facilitators that are out there that do this as well. That is another one I've gotten a certification and, and I think those are things that you can practically do. A big part of it is just listening.
Ryan (34:21):
What does your team need? What do they want? You know, again, are they feeling burnt out? I really worry about burnout now. Mm. There is just so much with people who have been doing so much for, for these two years. They haven't been seeing people. We've seen mental health. People have really struggled with that a lot in the organization. So I think it's okay to ask those types of questions, but that's another area that I think most managers are really uncomfortable with is the idea of, okay. So if I have a conversation about somebody and ask 'em, if they're okay, what if somebody tells me if they're depressed? Yeah. What do I do with that? Right. Right. And I think leaders are scared to even ask some of those questions cuz what, if they come back and say that yeah, I am depressed or yeah, I am really, and you don't have to necessarily have all the answers.
Ryan (35:04):
Sometimes listening is the place to start. You know, there are other resources you can definitely connect them to EAP. You can get other individuals involved if it is beneficial. And if it makes sense, but don't be scared to have some of those conversations. I think that's pretty important. So really it's about, I think self-awareness what are you good? What are you not good at? What are you comfortable with? Where do you need to find some, maybe some of that comfort where you're not showing up in the way that you might really wish you did and really probably you two going forward in the future. Cause this is gonna be an expectation from people. It's not like it's a, well, we I hope that I have a good leader that cares about me and treats me like a human being. Like this is gonna be a basic expectation of everyone. Post pandemic. We have literally opened up Pandora's box with everything we've talked about earlier. You've talked about the vulnerability, the way that we had to show up differently. We had to pull off that mask. Guess what? You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. It's out.
Erin (35:58):
Yeah. Ooh. Hao. Yes, yes, yes. Ryan, keep going, keep going. Sorry. That just hit me hard. I was like, yes it is. Yes it is.
Ryan (36:12):
So I think, just get to know yourself and know what you're good at and just, just care. Just people treat people like human beings. I think that's a big part of it. The work is important. We all know that we all get paid for a reason, but make sure that we're, you know, treating people as human beings and we're giving them that opportunity to really dig into those other things that they might need. We're focusing on their career development. But also that we are, we're just listening to them as you beings and trying to meet them where they're at.
Erin (36:39):
I love this so much also. I'm gonna make you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. It's out. That needs to be like a t-shirt. I love it. I love it so much. And I just, I, I wanna ask you this one final question. So improve it. We say the, it is whatever it, your purposes, whatever it is that you are put on this earth to do. So what do you think your it is? I think I know, but just tell us what is your it,
Ryan (37:07):
I think first it's supporting my friends and my family. Like I just, the people that surround me that make me who I am. So I think that's number one, but it's really helping organizations, teams in be the best they can be and be successful at work. I think that's a big, big part of it to me. Like I want the work world to be as best as it possibly be. And I want organizations to be as successful as they possibly can, but we all know that starts with the people. And so I wanna help organizations do that better. That's why I'm put on this earth.
Erin (37:36):
Yes. Okay. Well, how can people find you and all the things you talked about too, we're gonna link to in the show notes. So if you know, people wanna get those convers, those self-assessments and they wanna understand more of how they can actually show up and do better. We'll link to that. But how can people find Ryan?
Ryan (37:53):
Probably the best place to find me is on LinkedIn. So I post usually a couple times a week. You know, I'm on, if I'm speaking or doing any events or engagements or you just want to hear, what does Ryan think about leadership and work? That is the best place to reach out and kind of follow me and, and just engage in me. I love getting a chance to connect people with people out there and I love networking. So if you're really, really, if you hear this and you wanna chat more and you wanna dig into this reach out to me and, and we can find some time to chat,
Erin (38:21):
I love it. Okay. Well, Ryan, I just wanna say thank you so much for walking a mile in my shoes today. And I wanna say spoiler alert, they are bedroom slippers. But you shared so much wisdom about empathetic leadership, why it's so fundamentally important, why it's so important now more than ever, and why it should be a top priority as a leader in 2022. And just beyond the toothpaste is out of the tube. You can't put it back in. I botched that, but you what I'm gonna, I'll go back to my notes. I'll go back to my notes. Thank you so much for being here, Ryan.
Ryan (38:59):
Oh, thank you so much, Erin. Thanks for having me. It was wonderful.
Erin (39:02):
You're the best
Erin (39:12):
Improve it fam. I mean, this show is so good. He is such a compassionate, heartfelt, and dare I say empathetic leader. You know, I like to take you away with some homework. And today is all about you and the self assessment that Ryan mentioned. So he gave us several places where you could check out your own assessment on emotional intelligence. And we're gonna link to that in the show notes. So if you're wanting to just start with a self assessment and see where you're at as a leader, what you need to work on, that is a place to start. But here's what I wanna challenge you to do. Instead of taking a test. Why not go to the people that you are leading? I want you to go to members of your team and the next month's schedule some one-on-ones. And it's just absolutely for you to hear what their challenges are and how you can help.
Erin (40:13):
That's what I want you to set up the meeting is what are your challenges? I'm gonna see where I can help. And in that meeting, I want you to ask your team, what is an area of growth for me, for yourself? Where can you grow for them as a leader? We've talked about this on previous shows with Kim Scott and our radical candor conversations, but find a way to ask the question to members of your team. What can I do to better support you? Because that response is not a yes or no answer. It is an opportunity for them to give you feedback. And that right there is an assessment. It helps you understand what you're good at and where you need to grow. Now, as Ryan said, you cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube. It's out. I loved that this is going to be a place where people look constantly for career advancement, career growth, and to build and sustain their careers, or are going to look to you, their leader.
Erin (41:23):
So start with you. This is your homework. Do a self assessment by asking your team what you can do to improve their lives, which will in turn, improve your leadership style, improve it fam I am so happy that you're here. Thank you so much for showing up today, putting the work in for you and just remember keep failing because failure's a part of this. Keep improving because has the world needs that special? It, your it that only you can bring, I'll see you here next week. Bye. Hey friends, thanks for tuning in to improve it. I am so happy you are along for the ride. If you enjoyed this show, head on over to iTunes to leave us a five star view and subscribe to the show. So you never miss an episode. New episodes drop every Wednesday. Now, if you're really feeling today's show and you've improved it even just a little bit, please take a screenshot and tag me at keeping it real deal on Instagram and share it in your stories. I'll see you next week, but I wanna leave you with this thought, what did you improve today and how will that help your future successful self? Think about it. I am rooting for you and the world needs that special. It that only you can bring see you next time.