Episode 189: Imagine Belonging at Work with Rhodes Perry
Creating a culture of belonging at work – we talk about this all the time as people leaders, but do we consider what the concrete building blocks are to ensuring that each team member feels seen, heard, and valued?
In today’s episode, Erin talks with award-winning social entrepreneur, best-selling author, and nationally recognized DEI expert Rhodes Perry about what these exact building blocks are & how creating a culture of belonging isn’t actually that complex – it just requires us to do the work.
If you’re sensing burnout, having difficulty building relationships with your team members, or looking for tangible methods to simplifying your leadership – this is the episode for you.
More about Rhodes Perry: Serving as the Founder & CEO of Rhodes Perry consulting, Rhodes pilots a national leadership development and change management consultancy that helps executives build psychological safety, trust, and belonging cultures at work.
He is an award-winning social entrepreneur, best-selling author of two books, and a sought-after keynote speaker, now, nationally recognized as a workplace culture strategist and DEI thought leader. He has 20 years of leadership experience having worked at the White House, the Department of Justice, and PFLAG National. Media outlets like Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and the Associated Press have featured his powerful work.
ICYMI – Your Post-Episode Homework: 1) Click the links below to learn more about the Belonging at Work Summit and the Belonging at Work Membership Community and share the links with a friend who would be interested 2) Share this episode on your social media, with your group chat, or with any online community you’re part of
Connect with Rhodes Perry:
Check out all things Rhodes Perry at his website here: https://www.rhodesperry.com/
Show Links:
The Coqual Power of Belonging report
Register for the Belonging Summer School program
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Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
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Episode 189 Transcription
Erin (00:02):
Improve it peeps. Y'all aren't even ready. I just had to take a sip of water because I'm so excited and I'm parched. You know why? Because I just had the most epic conversation with Rhodes Perry, today's guest. Oh, this was, and I'll say this in the show, you'll hear it. A warm hug. Literally it's a warm hug from start to finish. Rhodes serves as the founder and the c e o of Rhodes Perry Consulting, which is a national leadership development and change management consultancy that helps executives build psychological safety, trust, and belonging cultures at work. He is an award-winning social entrepreneur, best-selling author of two books, and a sought after keynote speaker, now, nationally recognized as a workplace culture strategist and d e I thought leader. He has 20 years of leadership experience having worked at the White House, the PFLAG National, and the City of New York Media outlets like Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and the Associate Press have featured his powerful work.
Erin (01:10):
He partners with leading brands, including national nonprofits like the National Center for Transgender Equality, the Human Rights Campaign, advocates for Youth, and the Center for the Study of Social Policy. He is also the creator of the Belonging at Work Summit, which you'll hear about in the show. We're gonna put a link to it in the show notes. An annual virtual conference empowering over 50,000 plus inclusive leaders and d e I professionals to build community, gain new skills, and recommit to building healthier workplace cultures. I'm not gonna say anymore. This episode speaks for itself. I'm obsessed with Rhode. You're gonna be obsessed with Rhode. This conversation is for you. If you want to imagine a belonging culture at your workspace. Let's get to improving it with the one, the only Rhodes Perry. Hi, new friend. I'm Erin Diehl business improv edu entertainer Fail Flur and keynote speaker who is ready to help you improve your it, it being the thing that makes you, you.
Erin (02:16):
So think of me as you are keeping it real. Professional development bestie, who is here to help you develop yourself into the best version of you possible, so you can develop your team and lead with intentionality, transparency, and authenticity. Oh, and did I mention we're improving your IT through play? That's right. I'm an improvisational comedy expert who uses experiential learning to help you have your aha haha moments. Those are the moments when the light bulb goes off and you're laughing at the same time. So grab your chicken hat, your notebook, and your inner child, because I'm gonna take you on a journey that is both fun and transformative. Welcome to the Improve It Podcast Rhodes. Welcome to the Improve It Podcast. I feel very, like, you know how you, we were just talking about energy before we hit record, I feel like I just wanna hug you, like I feel <laugh>.
Rhodes (03:25):
Yes! It's a virtual hug.
Erin (03:27):
It's a virtual hug. I'm like, this show is already zing off, like a, a warm hug. So I'm very here for this. Oh, well, welcome, welcome to the show. I like to start every episode with an intention. So what is one word, a one word intention you'd like to give our audience
Rhodes (03:46):
Hope? I would like to give the audience hope, and for folks, I know it's not one word, but just to believe in change and that it's possible because we experience change every day,
Erin (03:56):
Right? That's right. That's right. Okay. I am here for that. So hope and believe in change. That's where we're going. And I'm super here for that. So let's start off, I, I did research on you. Obviously my team found you on the interwebs. They're like Rhodes. It's the person we have to talk to. So, okay, so long story short, I started doing a bunch of research on you. You have your company, Rhodes Perry Consulting. Let's talk about how this came to be. Is there any significant event in your life that made you say, I wanna help people lead more authentically and help others make them feel like they belong? Is there anything that happened that led you to this?
Rhodes (04:39):
Oh, wow. I wish I could say there was this one amazing story, and I think it's a accumulation of just experiences in the workplace that I think many of us have where as a younger professional kind of starting out, being so excited to contribute, just kind of the smarts and the reason why, you know, I was hired for different jobs and coming into organizations that just never thought about supporting an employee like me. And so for context for your audience, I am a member of the LGBTQ plus community. I'm a transgender guy. I'm bisexual. You know, my family looks a little bit different than other families. And so just kind of getting what I needed to do my best work always felt elusive or out of reach, you know? And so the kind of genesis of this company started as a young professional. And I didn't really know.
Rhodes (05:26):
I just knew, you know, I'm gonna take a note, a mental note of, ouch, you know, this didn't feel so good. Maybe I could do this different as I grow into, into being more of a leader inside of an organization. And, you know, fast forward to 2015, it was the, the timing was right. I was ready to kind of move out on my own and start my own company. And it was just, you know, almost 20 years of workplace experiences of like, you know, maybe I can use a model of belong belonging and also exclusion, because so many of us, you know, it's heartfelt. You know, I don't have to explain to you what it feels like to belong. I think immediately you're just like, oh, yes, I, I love belonging <laugh>. Yeah. And it's similar with exclusion, you know? Oh, ow. You know, you kind of get constricted. And that just kind of limits all of that creativity, all of that genius and I, using that framework with leaders, a lot of the folks that you work with, people kind of instantly connect to it. And then we have that opportunity to explore more. So I feel really grateful to do the work, and I feel like I'm honoring my younger self, if that makes sense in doing it.
Erin (06:26):
Yes, it does. And guess what? You just ding, ding, ding. I went, ding, ding. Because we, like I said, we have a theme for every show or every month of the show, and our theme for May was developing your inner child.
Rhodes (06:38):
Oh,
Erin (06:39):
I love that. And so, yes. And now we're turning it full circle into love. And now you're here, we're talking all about it, and we're bringing hope and belief and change and all the things to this. And I'm so grateful you shared that story. Thank you for your vulnerability. Thank you for creating Rosebury Consulting. We need you, we need you in this world. We really do. And I, I wanna talk a little bit where you, you alluded to this, this concept of exclusion and belonging. So why do you use this framework in your work?
Rhodes (07:11):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we can connect to it pretty easily. You know, these are, these are terms, it's almost kind of, you know, I'm in the diversity, equity, and inclusion space. And I even feel like with those words, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know what that means. <Laugh>, you know, and you kind of get a group of 30 people together and you start having real conversations about these topics. And very quickly, at least what I discover in my own work is like, wow, people relate to these terms really, really differently. And I think similarly with belonging I'm seeing this more in workplaces where we're building a culture of belonging, right? And so I often ask leaders, okay, I love that. You know, when you see yourself five years, 10 years, 20 years down the road, you might not be in this organization.
Rhodes (07:54):
But as you're building that culture, what does it look like 20 years into the future? Right? Like, get specific, what does it feel like on a full sensory level? What are you hearing? What are you seeing? You know, things that you're noticing, how you feel about your work. And it's really interesting because a lot of folks, you know, it's hard to kind of move into that dream state of like, I just have to meet my deadlines right now. It's kind of like instant, you know, me, <laugh> the urgency, right? But to really, you know, I think it's like a luxurious space. So just give yourself a beat. You know, carve out four hours today and describe it. Write a narrative for it. Because if you don't know where you're going, you're gonna get lost in the mix. Especially if you don't know where you are now, you know, sometimes I think leaders wanna believe the culture works for everyone because it's working for them, right?
Rhodes (08:40):
Yeah. You know, they, they've ascended into an organization, you know and it feels good, right? And so they wanna believe that everyone's feeling that. And so I just, I, I get them to get curious, you know, do you think that experience is the same for that younger professional that's just starting out in their career and your company, or someone new to your company, regardless of the level that they're at? And, you know, that's where they kind of get a little nervous and uncertain. But, and like, we have to look in the mirror and be honest about what's going on, if we truly wanna build those cultures and make a difference. So I think that framework's helpful and really kind of distinguishing, like, what are those ingredients of belonging? And I love Koal used to be the Center for Talent and Innovation in New York City.
Rhodes (09:24):
They put out a report called The Power of Belonging in 2019. And I thought it was brilliant. So they talk with a lot of researchers social psychologists, people that do deep thinking on this as well as practitioners like you and I like people working with organizations. And they said, okay, like when you talk about belonging, what are components of it? And they came up with four things. So basically being seen. So yes, you know, I see you, I value everything that you bring in your technical know-how, your genius and all of that lived experience, you know, your identities, the cultures that you bring into the workplace. That is a value add. I don't want you to fit in here. I want you to add to what we have in this organization, being connected, you know, trusting each other, trusting your team, trusting your leaders, believing in the organization.
Rhodes (10:10):
You know, that's that connection component. That's the second piece. The third is support. So you get what you need so you can do your best work. And that distinguishes, like, what you need is gonna be really different than what I need, right? And I'm okay with that. You're okay with that? I want you to succeed. So, you know, I would give you what you need. And hopefully that would be reciprocated, right? And that will be different. And then the last piece is pride, right? So it's kind of thinking about your own values, right? That kind of moral compass that guides you through your life, that those are in alignment with your company's values, right? And then that feels good with where you work. And kind of the exclusion component is just the inverse of all that. So if you're not feeling those four ingredients, you're likely to feel invisible, discouraged, and disengaged. Maybe even shame, like, what about me isn't really valued here? <Laugh>, you know? Yeah. so I think that's somewhat helpful to get really clear, like, when we talk about belonging, this is what we're talking about, and what is the cost if that's not happening? And that's that exclusion framework.
Erin (11:10):
Oh my gosh. I mean, okay. Repeat, repeat the four for me one more time. Scene, yeah.
Rhodes (11:16):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, connected,
Erin (11:18):
Connected, support, supported
Rhodes (11:20):
And pride,
Erin (11:20):
Pride. C seen, connected support and pride, same connected support and pride. I mean, the, if you can literally put those four things on a giant poster board for everyone in your office to view on a daily basis, they're just great words and great reminders. Because I love what you talk about too. Imagine every a place where everyone belongs, right? That that framework that you're asking leaders to think about does, does Young Susan, who's the new entry level employee, feel the same way as you do, as somebody who's been here for 15 years, who knows the ropes? Are they feeling included? Is somebody else who may not look or feel the same as everybody else here feeling like they belong? And really bringing those four words into play and marrying those, those ideas and fundamentals together, can really change the course of an organization. And as a, as a practitioner, like you and I, we have teams, right? Like, I want to make sure 20 years down the road that this place is way better than it is right now. Not that it's not great, but there's always room for improvement. I want every single person who comes here to feel like, even on this show, even the audience. Like, I want every single person who comes here to feel like they are wrapped in this warm hug with us. Like, that is the feeling. That's the feeling
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Of ROEs. Yes. That's it. Oh, you got it. My gosh. Ok. We can stop it now. No,
Rhodes (12:44):
I'm just kidding. You know, there's one thing to add on that too, right? Is like, we've got, so John aal from the Othering and Belonging Institute outta uc, Berkeley, awesome, super smart, amazing. Someone I look up to, his framework, it's called Targeted Universalism. Sounds like very academic, because it is, you know, but it's, it's simple, right? It's, you want, you like that example that you just shared, you want everyone who's listening to this show, you want the people that you engage with, you want them all to feel the sense of belonging. So that's that universal goal. And right. Like, we're not gonna get there until we know, like, what are the barriers for those folks that are not feeling that right now? Right? And what do we do to change that? How do we take down these barriers? Like what are behaviors, like interpersonal behaviors that we can shift to really kind of roll out that welcome map for everyone?
Rhodes (13:33):
And those are, that's the targeted interventions. So we won't get to that universal goal unless we employ those targeted interventions for the folks that are feeling excluded right now. And you have to kind of, again, get really specific, well, who isn't feeling this? Right? So, you know, that's the work of, of like a community group or a workplace maybe even in your own family, right? But just to kind of get clear on like, who's feeling good about being here and who's having a hard time? And then let's, let's really put our efforts around the folks that are experiencing those barriers, right? Mm-Hmm. And, and I think that's where people get stuck, right? Of like, oh, I love the universal goal. Everyone's gonna belong. D e i, we love it <laugh>. And then it's like, well, then we have to just do some of the work. And it's, it's not as, it's not as abstract or complicated as sometimes we make it, you know? Yeah. And, yeah.
Erin (14:23):
No, keep going. Keep going. I'm a drink because I, I don't wanna cut you off there, cuz that was a great thought, because I do think that's what, okay, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna visualize, I'm gonna imagine, okay, yes, <laugh> a leader who has been in the organization a long time. It's always been done a certain way. Things have been this way for x amount of years, and this person doesn't necessarily see an easy route to a culture of belonging. They see a lot of like, here's this like one route, which I want you to tell me what that one route would be. But they see like, here's all these other roads, here's these other little angles that I could go. And it seems like a big giant maze. Why? Let me ask you this first question, and this, you know, I'm totally just shooting off the hip here is like, why would that, why does it look so convoluted for that leader? And then how can you make them just go down this straight path? Like, what's an easy way for a listener listening today who's like, I have a senior leader who sees this as important, but has no way how to move in and out of all these different lanes. How can I make them just go down this one path and make it less abstract and easy for them to understand? How, what would you say to that? This is a very convoluted question.
Rhodes (15:47):
Oh, it's great. It's a, it led me there. It's a, it's a really good question, right? Because I think that that might be on a lot of people's minds and, and your audience probably is filled with leaders right now who are like, that's me. That's me, right? So I think like the first piece is like any good leader, it's knowing where your strengths are and where your learning edges are. So if a leader's feeling overwhelmed or it feels too abstract, right? You know, it's helpful to have someone on your senior executive team, your executive leadership team, whatever you call your cabinet <laugh>, you know, like whatever it is, <laugh>, you know, like, like, you know, to make sure that there's someone on that team ideally who is able to visualize where you're going and can be that calm, collected voice to say, this is the next move.
Rhodes (16:30):
This is the next move. We're gonna keep going. We're measuring this. We're we're collecting our receipts, you know, this is what's working. This is what we need to kind of recalibrate to kind of move towards that north star. So lean on expertise, delegate, right? We do that all the time as leaders, you don't have to know everything, right? And what you can do to also simplify is to recognize we are living through super dynamic times. So change management for leaders shouldn't be a new skill. You know? Working on cross-functional teams, you're managing change all the time. You know, this is a part of transforming culture. This is another kind of change management process. And if you have a really good person or kind of team that can help you with basic change management, really good, thoughtful change management, communicating that clearly, right?
Rhodes (17:19):
Kind of leading with empathy, that can also kind of simplify a little bit, where you don't have to be the one that has all the answers, nor should you have all the answers. And even the person that might be guiding you or that team guiding you, they're not gonna have all the answers either. There's a lot of wisdom within your organization to give you feedback of, yep, we're on the right path, or oof, okay, we've got a course correct. And I think the last piece for leaders to kind of simplify this is the skills you need for the future of work. You know, and I hear this all the time, I'm sure you hear this a lot too, of like, oh, what you're doing, you know, we're, we're learning the soft skills, you know, we're gonna make some time for soft skills, please, let's utilize, not that kind of phrase, but let's utilize, these are essential skills.
Erin (18:02):
Yes, yes. Full
Rhodes (18:04):
Stop. Like, these are essential skills. And, you know, for you to be a relevant leader in the future, it's, again, it's, you don't have to know everything about what we're talking about. It would behoove you to kind of embrace some of those inclusive leadership behaviors. Curiosity, you know, being cognizant of our own biases, you know, being culturally, I wouldn't say competent, but culturally curious, you know, culturally humble, learn about people and groups of people that you work with or inside your workplace that are different from you. And see that as a value add. You're gonna learn some great things. And who knows, you might be able to access new markets or, you know, forge new relationships with customers that before you kind of built up that cultural intelligence that that wouldn't be possible. So there's so many examples of why these behaviors will help leaders and it's a, it's a value add. So it's to say it's a mindset shift, right?
Erin (18:58):
Yes. Yes. Oh my God. Okay. Wait. Oh, okay. Yes. Lemme just do a little yes for you because I'm like, yes. So the first piece that really, I mean, there's so much I wanna unpack from this, but what really stood out to me too is like the soft skill concept. Cuz that's what I teach. They're not soft skills. I call them power skills because they're the hardest thing to train, right? Like you, I could train you on a software, I could train Susan on, you know, QuickBooks accounting, I could cha we could train, we can train technology, and you can train on specific skillsets and you can train people how to work in different software programs. But the hardest thing to teach communication, leadership how to think quickly on your feet, how to love, how to care and show kindness and compassion and empathy. All of those things are what we, you and I are, are talking about and preaching about. And that's what we've centered our lives work around. However, when a organization does not see your senior leader, when an organization doesn't see the value in that, what you can see is the unhappiness of the team surrounding that leader.
Rhodes (20:15):
Oh, yeah. Oh yeah, that's right. On <laugh>. Yes. Yes.
Erin (20:19):
And that to me right there, what you just said, like going, understanding the, the value of going down this one path towards belonging. This, this, you know, inspiring people to advance d e i in their workplace is your life's work. And I, and I, and I wanna know how you're doing that. How are you inspiring more people to not look at it as this windy maze, this metaphor I keep going back to, but this just path towards a better future, a better now a better workplace. How are you doing that?
Rhodes (20:56):
Yeah, I mean as many ways as possible, right? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> without kind of burning myself out. So one kind of taking care of myself, because as you know, you know, this work is, it's life's, it's, it's our life's work, you know? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> along with many other people that are joining us around kind of like, this is a marathon, not a sprint. So change like this is not gonna happen overnight. You know, oftentimes we're planting seeds, so like with writing books, you know, I wrote two books, belonging Network and Imagine Belonging. And the first one was just ideas, you know, giving ideas of how to wrap your arms around this big topic of belonging and how it relates to the workplace. So it's like the what, why, and the how.
Erin (21:36):
Wait, can I stop you? You just said wrap your arms. That's another hug. Okay, that's another hug. Okay. Keep going. So many hugs in this co in this conversation. Okay. Keep going. Keep going.
Rhodes (21:45):
Yes. Yeah, so I just, I wanted people to kind of, you know, cuz it was in the air, you know, and I actually listened to John Powell speak to a client, you know, earlier this week. And someone had asked him, you know, when did belonging kind of become a part of the workplace? And he is like, you know, five years ago you wouldn't see any, anything, you know, like books or kind of like workshops on this. And it's just kind of exploded. And I love that he said five years because like in 2018 was when I wrote Belonging at Work. So I was like, yes, okay. Like, you know, kind of just, I think one of the ways that I do the work right, is kind of introducing ideas that I've gained through doing social justice advocacy, you know, kind of working in policy and legal sphere.
Rhodes (22:27):
Like Sphere is kind of outside of the d e i space, but bringing all those experiences in saying, what about this concept? How could we apply it here? You know, how how might this be helpful for leaders? So I try to translate, right? And I try to share those concepts through books. One of the, one of the big gifts that I I love giving, you know, to folks and, and I'll certainly share the the link with you is our Belonging at Work Summit. Hmm. So we're going into our fifth year and it's a little bit d you know, everyone kind of has summits out there, right? Our summit is really committed to democratizing the knowledge that we're gaining through client work that some organizations wouldn't have access to because they don't want the resources or the time or the staff. So we make this five day experience a hundred percent free, and of course people can purchase like some of the knowledge products that are produced after the fact, you know, to help fund the summit.
Rhodes (23:18):
But we really tried to extend this to as many people as possible, and we bring in thought leaders, you know, celebrated thought leaders from all over the world that are doing this work in different ways including like not just in the d e I space, but you know, folks like I said, you know, coming from social justice or legal backgrounds and kind of sharing, okay, like these are the toughest challenges. Like, we're gonna be talking about backlash to doing d e I work, you know? Mm-Hmm. We talk about power, we talk about, you know, we talk about a lot of things that are kind of those sidebar conversations that we crave having, but you know, we just, we don't have a prepared workshop on this because we're dealing with this real time, right? And just, so it's almost like a community of practice. And and then from that summit, we also have a membership community.
Rhodes (24:02):
And so that's a way of bringing in d e i practitioners who are doing the work right now. And I've totally been in this role where it's like you <laugh> you're, you're kind of, the weight of your workplace's culture is placed on your shoulder. So you can be working an organization with 30,000 employees and it's like, you know, roads, please go in and fix all of this, right? Mm-Hmm. With zero support, right? So you might have like someone, you know, leadership member a member of the leadership team who's like helping you kind of clear the, the way but has usually has no idea how to support you. So this membership community is like, we acknowledge that this is probably happening in your workplace too. Come together, you know, let's share what's working well, let's be honest about where we're stuck and let's workshop those challenges together.
Rhodes (24:47):
And oh my gosh, between all of like writing, you know, doing the summit, the membership community, it just fills my heart <laugh>. So when I go in and work with clients individually, it's like, okay, like there's all of this knowledge and it just builds confidence too, right? Of like, oh my gosh, I kind of have my fingers on the pulse of what's happening in other organizations. So one way, you know, especially for leaders that might be tuning in right now of like, oh, we, we might be the only one struggling with this, it's chances are you aren't, you know? Yeah. This is, yeah. So thank you for that. Thank you for asking.
Erin (25:18):
Oh my gosh, yes. And let me ask you, when's the seventh this year? In 20, we're recording this in May of 2023.
Rhodes (25:25):
It's in November, so we usually do it. Oh, yeah, yeah. So it'll be November that first full week of November. I think it's the sixth through the 12th. I don't have a calendar in front of me, but we're okay.
Erin (25:34):
Yeah. And do you send me that, we'll put it in the show notes and then in the membership community, do you have to go to the summit to be a part of the membership? Nope. No. No. Okay. All right. We'll throw that in too. That would be awesome. Yeah. To give anybody listening who is feeling, like you said, like a one person show and a see of thousands of individuals. I can, I have many clients and, and just colleagues who are that. And so I know it's real. Like I we've had many people talk about it on this show, and it's so wonderful. You've created this community for people to talk and best practices, see what's working, what's not working, and figure it out because you need that space. Kudos to you, Rhodes. This is impressive. This is wonderful work that the world needs and the future of work will depend on.
Erin (26:28):
So just know, I know you're, you're making dents, but the future is gonna see the biggest dividends from this. So let's talk about this idea of d e I and you know, we have a lot of large companies that we work with. We also have some smaller companies that may not have a d EI practitioner in their organization. So if somebody listening today is thinking, okay, my company needs this. I would like to maybe head it up or have a conversation with senior leadership to bring this into my organization. If somebody's starting at Square one, what would be a good place for them to start? What is like one step they could do to create some type of d e I function at their organization?
Rhodes (27:19):
My first thought, I, I was thinking of a good colleague of mine, Bernadette Smith, who loves working with organizations like that from the Equality Institute. And she wrote a really great book called The Inclusive 360. So I think like self-education is, the reason why I bring that up is this, I think self-education is really key and finding those resources designed for, for those organizations like we have not started yet. And what I would say to folks like that is, you are in the best possible position, even though it feels like you're probably like decades behind. You have decades of, of case studies and like the things that work really well, the must-haves the kind of infrastructure you need to really advance your d e I goals, even to kind of like name what they are, right? You have decades of like case studies showing you the way and also decades of case studies of things to really look out for, to avoid, right?
Rhodes (28:12):
Mm-Hmm. Such as like, don't silo this work <laugh>, you know, like, yeah, you might get it started in hr, but remember this is, we're talking about culture. You swim in it, it's going to impact every function of your organization, which usually is what creates overwhelm, right? So I think it's a combination of the first action is self-education and wherever the momentum is, right? So if you start talking about this concept of like, Hey, I think for us to be relevant for our organization, we have to take a look at our culture. You know, and maybe that's how you start the conversation and finding those champions. And I do a workshop called, it's like knowing your audience, right? So when you're, wherever you are at in this pro process. So for those, those folks just getting started almost kind of taking out a, an organizational chart, and I know like the bigger the organization, the more complex that could be.
Rhodes (29:04):
But you know, when you're thinking about your executive leadership team or the, the people you have access to, the leaders you have access to kind of map them out based on what, you know, the relationships you have and kind of, you know, I know it's kind of crude if you are going to generalize into three categories, but just for the sake of simplicity, bucketing these leaders into three kind of categories. Those champions, the folks that, like you already know, they speak about this, they talk about the import, they live and breathe it, right? They're on the same page with you. I would recommend talking to those folks first, right? The majority of folks are gonna be, I call them kind of the movable middle. Some people call them the apathetic, right? Like, okay, it's important, but how does this relate to my job and what am I supposed to do with this knowledge?
Rhodes (29:46):
Right? Like, I think with a little bit of attention to this group, once they get how it connects to helping them do their jobs better, they're on board. You just have to make that case. Yeah. And like the last category are just kind of the resistors. There's gonna be people that no matter what the change is, is like, oh, they're just gonna <laugh>, they're gonna push back, right? And they're gonna be loud about it, but there's not that many of them. And then there's just people that are really, really opposed to the work. And so there's a way to kind of neutralize, to kind of meet and kind of, you know, give airtime to some of the pushback and then kind of countering that with just what we know about how this is good for, for, for business. So it's kind of like looking at that business case not to try to, to win over, you know, people that are just going to oppose, but to, to meet them where they're at and to showcase the evidence of, of why this really matters. So I know that was probably more than one action, but no giving people options.
Erin (30:37):
I love that. Okay, so just to recap, we are going to identify the champions, right? And these are the people that are already on board. We know they're, we're gonna get buy-in from then we have the middle, what did you call the
Rhodes (30:48):
<Laugh>? The movable middle. Yeah.
Erin (30:50):
Movable middle. Yes. <laugh>, which you can easily probably change into a champion. Then we have the resistors and then we just have the opposers, right? And so it's really just, it's essentially meeting these people, the opposers and the resistors where they're at, moving the movable middle to the champions, but showcasing the business need as the overarching goal. This is how it will help business, which the champions in the movable middle already know and understand, but we want those resistors and those opposers to really understand that. So then that helps them kind of put it through a different lens.
Rhodes (31:28):
Exactly. Yeah. And, and the reason why I recommend just finding those, those champions, the other folks that are kind of signaling to you that they're on, you know, they're, they're in alignment with, you know, championing doing d e I work is that when you start to build strength in numbers, you're not the only one anymore. You know? Yeah. So I think that like, that, that power of finding other people within the organization who kind of are looking around saying, why don't we have this, you know, where I used to work, we, we were, we were really mature in our d e I work. And so there's a real big opportunity, right? Like find those folks first and then kind of map out, you know, who else do we need to bring on board to get this started? And then it becomes a lot easier for you because it's not all on your shoulders.
Erin (32:13):
Mm. I love that. I love that Rose, this is so impactful and I hope anyone listening who needed a tangible first step, that's a really easy way to break it down. Especially just taking a chunk of people in the organization, senior leadership, who do we need to get buy-in from? You don't have to take everyone and put 'em in those categories. Just the senior leaders who, you know, can help champion the champions, can help champion the idea. We can move those middle people into our, you know, the multiple middles up to the champions and then we can create the case studies for the opposers and the resistors. I really love this model. That is fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. Thank
Rhodes (32:51):
You.
Erin (32:52):
Okay, well, Rhodes, I could talk to you for 500 hours because I find this work so fascinating. But I do have a last question for you that we ask all of our guests, and it is improve it is the name of our company, the podcast. So we say that, that it is that thing that you are put here on this earth to do that contract. You sign with the universe to say, this is road's gift to the world. What is your it
Rhodes (33:21):
A reminder that belonging is your birthright. You know, you're here, you belong, you're supposed to be here. And the more that we can remember that, I think that for everyone who's tuning into your show, you know, it's kind of channeling into your own what is your it, right? Like what is, what is that message that you're here to remind other people about so that we can build a better world? So I think that's, I think that's what it is. You know, that's what I feel. That's what I feel in my heart.
Erin (33:50):
I love that belonging is your birthright. I wanna make a t-shirt. I want, I need some swag. I hope you have that. I hope you have that on swag, because we need that <laugh>. That is a tagline. That is everything is summed up so beautifully, so, oh my gosh. Well I'm so glad that your, it exists. I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to chat with you. If anyone wants to find you, learn more about you, talk with you, how can they connect with you?
Rhodes (34:18):
Really easy. Rhode perry.com. You can find almost everything there. And I'd love to, I'd love to chat if I can be helpful.
Erin (34:26):
You are awesome. Okay. Well this is, this was helpful. This was so helpful. So thank you for helping our community. Thank you for coming on this show. Thank you for the work that you bring. The world belonging is your birthright. I love it. And guess what? You gave us hope and the, the opportunity that we can believe in change today. And it felt like the warmest hug I've received all day. So thank you.
Rhodes (34:51):
Yes, thank you. This was great.
Erin (35:03):
I'm si that was a sign to this microphone and let me tell you why Road Rhode Perry blew my mind and I'm sure blew yours. He is incredible. What a talent would a lay, what a human being making a difference in this world. So here's what I want you to do from today's show. You know, I love to give you homework Number one, we're gonna put the link in the show notes to the summit that he mentioned with over 50,000 inclusive leaders. The Belonging at Work Summit will be in November of 2023. This episode is airing in June of 2023. If you are a D e I practitioner or know somebody who could benefit from attending the summit, please send this episode along with the show note links. You could also sign up for the membership program that he mentioned as well. If you are a party of one d e I practitioner in your organization and you want to lean on a supportive community, check out that link in the show notes as well.
Erin (36:05):
The other tangible piece of homework for you is to share this episode. Share, share, share, share, share. Post it on LinkedIn, post it on your Instagram stories. Post it where people who you know could benefit from this, can read it, hear about it, listen to it. We have a transcription on our website page. If you don't have the time to listen, you can skim the transcription there. This episode is so important. Let's make a better workspace for the future generations of work. And better yet, let's make a wonderful, more inclusive belonging workspace for every single person in our organization today. Now, Perry, our Rhodes Perry Rhodes Perry gave us the tools and the T and the tips and the tricks. He did not give me my words back. I'm gonna find them. Here they are. I'm back. Rhodes gave us the tips and the tricks to guide us through. It's us to up. Oh my gosh, y'all, I can't talk. I'm not editing this. You're getting the real deal. Fail. Yeah. It is up to us to take this and implement and move these wonderful tips and tricks forward in our own organizations and communities. You know what I'm gonna say? Cuz I'm using my words now. Keep failing. Keep improving because this world, oh, it needs that very special it that only you can bring. I'll see you here next week. Bye.
Erin (37:44):
Hey friend, did you enjoy today's show? If so, head on over to iTunes to rate and subscribe. So you never miss an episode. Now, did I mention that when you leave a five star review of the Improve It podcast, an actual team of humans does a happy dance? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. That's right. So leave a review for us on iTunes, screenshot it, and send me an email at info learn to improve it.com. I'll send you a personalized video back as a thank you. Thanks so much for listening. Improve It Peeps. I'll see you next Wednesday.