Episode 243: What's the Key to Overcoming Perfectionism? Kamini Wood Unveils the Answer
You came into this world knowing exactly who you’re here to be, but the world gets to you as you grow older–weighing you down with other peoples’ opinions, paying your taxes, and 9 to 5s–and the actual purpose of your life is to remember what you came here for?
Interestinggg. And if you think about how overcoming perfectionism plays a role in this idea...wowee.
Human Potential Coach, Speaker, and Podcast Host Kamini Wood joins Erin on the pod today to discuss:
Her own personal relationships with people-pleasing and perfectionism that began at a young age and how she’s working through them
How to meet someone where they are, not try to get them to fit into the box you have for them
What a values-based action is and how to start taking more of them
Kamini shares her concrete method for calling out your perfectionism and recalibrating in order to avoid perfectionism paralysis.
If you’re a recovering perfectionist and/or people-pleaser – this is the episode for you.
Special sprinkles on top of this episode:
Why it’s not about not caring what others’ think, it’s about not making their reaction dictate what you choose to do
Kindness > judgment
How to get rid of perfectionism?
Celebrate your successes.
Embrace mistakes as learning opportunities.
Set reasonable expectations.
Break tasks into smaller steps and start simple.
Remind yourself that perfection is not necessary.
Limit your time on tasks.
-calm.com
What is the root cause of perfectionism?
Perfectionism can be caused by conditions like Generalized Anxiety and OCD, as well as family, cultural, and workplace expectations. I often see perfectionism in people with a trauma history, as it can come from a desire to control things or avoid any potential negative consequences from mistakes.
-choosingtherapy.com
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Connect with Kamini Wood:
Connect with Erin Diehl:
Erin Diehl is the founder and Chief “Yes, And” officer of improve it! and host of the improve it! Podcast. She’s a performer, facilitator and professional risk-taker who lives by the mantra, “get comfortable with the uncomfortable.” Through a series of unrelated dares, Erin has created improve it!, a unique professional development company that pushes others to laugh, learn and grow. Her work with clients such as United Airlines, PepsiCo, Groupon, Deloitte, Motorola, Walgreens, and The Obama Foundation earned her the 2014 Chicago RedEye Big Idea Award and has nominated her for the 2015-2019 Chicago Innovations Award.
This graduate from Clemson University is a former experiential marketing and recruiting professional as well as a veteran improviser from the top improvisational training programs in Chicago, including The Second City, i.O. Theater, and The Annoyance Theatre.
When she is not playing pretend or facilitating, she enjoys running and beach dates with her husband and son, and their eight-pound toy poodle, BIGG Diehl.
You can follow the failed it! podcast on Instagram @learntoimproveit and facebook, and you can follow Erin personally on Instagram @keepinitrealdiehl here. You can also check out improve it! and how we can help your organization at www.learntoimproveit.com. We can’t wait to connect with you online!
Episode 243 Transcription
Erin Diehl (00:00.27)
Prove it peeps, I have comedy on the show today and I am so excited to chat with you. Listen, we've had, I've already had 500 mishaps before putting record on this show with you. You've seen the recovering perfectionist in action and it's not pretty. It's not pretty. So I'm excited to chat with you today as a recovering perfectionist. I know.
So many people who listen to this show also struggle with perfectionism. We're having you on the show the month of June and we have a theme for this month and it's all about becoming. So before we go any further, I'd love for you to set an intention either for yourself, our listeners, one word that just comes to mind to guide our conversation.
Kamini Wood (00:53.821)
Ooh, what a great question. In line with the becoming, I would actually invite people to unmask.
Erin Diehl (01:03.186)
Ooh, okay, I'm loving that. I've never had that one before and I love it. Okay, so much to unpack with that and we're gonna get to it. I wanna talk about the month intention, becoming. What does becoming mean to you?
Kamini Wood (01:04.533)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (01:14.135)
Mmm.
Kamini Wood (01:21.517)
For me, I think becoming is about allowing yourself room to realign with who you are on a deeper level. And what I mean by that is realigning with what your needs are, what your values are, because when we allow for that, we can actually become who we were meant to be and who we are being called to be.
Erin Diehl (01:46.094)
Okay, how many I am here for that? Cause that word realign, it just made me kind of sit up straighter, even though my lower back is killing me. It made me feel like I was, I needed to align myself back into my body. And just even when you are becoming this higher version of yourself, it is all about alignment.
Kamini Wood (01:56.863)
I'm sorry.
Kamini Wood (02:09.657)
Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. And I intentionally use the word realign because I think, honestly, we were, we all already know those things. When we come into this world, we are aligned. It's we then are, we're dealt either experiences or messages and we internalize them and we make them mean other things along the way. And so when we're becoming, we actually are going through a process of realignment.
Erin Diehl (02:11.838)
with your soul and your purpose.
Erin Diehl (02:40.37)
I am so here for that. Can I just tell you, okay, you know when you're like meant to have a conversation as I was prepping this show today, I was thinking to myself, I feel like we have so much, I'm gonna say this word, synergy. I wanna kick myself for saying it, but I felt that through all of your copy, all of the things that you're about, it was so interesting.
And that particular, that thought right there about coming in, knowing who we are and trying to spend our lives remembering that has been a thought that I've actually really been thinking about as we're talking about this topic. And I believe we get amnesia, like the moment we get in the womb, we're like, OK, our soul forgot, but it's our purpose to remember.
Kamini Wood (03:07.385)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (03:13.625)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (03:26.601)
Yes, yes, yes. Oh my gosh. Totally aligned with that thought.
Erin Diehl (03:29.77)
Oh my god. I'm like, go here for this. Okay, so, all right. Now, do you have, and I was looking through your bio, just all the information you can find on you online, but is there anything, maybe we can't find in your bio, maybe there's something that we don't know about.
how you stepped into your power, how you became this version of yourself because you were doing so many great things.
Kamini Wood (04:00.705)
Well, you might be able to find some of it online, but I think part of the story for me is...
You know, I'm a recovering perfectionist as well and also a people pleaser. And so there was a big part of my story that included following the path of making sure everyone around me was okay. So in order for me to get to where I am today, it was giving myself permission to decide for myself, what is it that I actually want to do? What is it that I feel called to do? And then giving myself permission to step into that.
regardless of what other people's reaction to it is. And it's not about not caring about their reaction, but not making their reaction dictate what I choose to do.
Erin Diehl (04:42.406)
Mm, mm, so freaking good. I resonate with that on such a deep level. We talk a lot about perfectionism and people-pleasing on this show, but we don't really dive into how to change it, right? Like we're all about, like these are things, and that's why I'm so excited to chat with you here today. Now, I know that you have so many certifications and modalities of helping others heal.
Kamini Wood (04:59.659)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Diehl (05:11.614)
I've seen that. That we can find online. But what led you to these certifications? What led you to this specific path?
Kamini Wood (05:13.741)
Yes.
Kamini Wood (05:22.177)
So for me, in terms of going into the different modalities and the different certifications, what I recognized is that each one of us assimilates information differently or we process information differently. And so if I was really going to be in service to individuals, if I tried to put them into a box and say, well, this is the way that I'm gonna talk to you and this is how we're gonna work through this, rather than utilizing my ability to understand different modalities so that when I show up, I can allow that person to come to those conversations and be exactly who they are.
are and then I maneuver through.
figuring out which modality would serve them best, or at least would give them the room to explore what they needed to explore, that made more sense to me than saying, let me put you into this box and make you understand it this way. So for example, cognitive behavioral based coaching works for a lot of people, but for other people, they get really stuck in their thoughts. And if I try to push that onto them and make them think their way through it, it's not gonna be of service, versus if I take a somatic approach and they can tell me what their body's feeling and what that feels like.
Erin Diehl (06:14.251)
Yeah.
Kamini Wood (06:25.767)
in their body and take that bottom-up approach, we're still going to be able to work through it together. Recognizing that for me made more sense than just simply saying, let me learn this one thing and then put everybody into that box. Because for me it is about service. It is about how can I serve the person sitting in front of me and take them as they are rather than trying to get them to fit into some type of box that I have for them.
Erin Diehl (06:50.874)
Oh my God, I love that. I love that. And that I think is such a well-rounded approach and the individual can feel that. Like when they know that you're working with them, customizing it for them, feeling their energy and conversation and you have all these different tricks to pull out of the bag to help them. It's so cool. So kudos to you for going. That's a lot of different things that I was looking on your website that you're certified in.
Kamini Wood (07:20.049)
Also, I'm also a nerd. I really love this stuff. So I don't shy away from it. I'm like, this is so interesting to me. You know, like for instance, learning about IFS, right? Learning parts work, that makes so much sense to me. And then the act-based coaching where you're going through, you know, acceptance and commitment. And then actually for me, it's about kind of merging some of these modalities together and kind of creating my own way of working with people. And
Erin Diehl (07:24.026)
Yeah. Me too! Yeah!
Kamini Wood (07:49.909)
So far it's been working.
Erin Diehl (07:52.006)
It's so cool. No, good for you. And I'm also a nerd. Like, I love this stuff on a real deep level. I also have like a spiritual twist to it all. So I'm super here for this conversation. I love this. Okay, so we're gonna go and literally this could not be a more perfect time to chat with you because I feel like as a recovering perfectionist, I'm just gonna give the audience some tangibles here.
Kamini Wood (08:04.213)
Mm-hmm. And...
Erin Diehl (08:18.126)
I've had like seven fails today already. Like half of them happened talking to you. I'm just like this conversation could not come at a more perfect time. So I'm so excited to dive in too. Okay, now I was reading about this in your bio and online. I know, but I would love for you to share, is there a personal story with perfectionism and...
Kamini Wood (08:41.625)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Diehl (08:44.738)
how it affected your life, maybe from growing up, maybe from something that happened to you that led you to this specific path as well.
Kamini Wood (08:53.173)
Yeah, so growing up, I did grow up in a predominantly white town in Connecticut. So, my parents, mom came to the States when she was 13, dad when he was 19. So immigrant parents, I'm first generation American.
like I mentioned, predominantly white town. So when I first went to grade school, you walk into school and I clearly, as a five-year-old knew, I looked different. And of course, a name like Comany is gonna stick out. It's not like all the rest of the other children in the classroom. And so from a very early age, there was that, how do I solve this feeling of not belonging? At five years old, I didn't know that that's what I was doing, but that's what my little self was doing. How can I fit in here? How can I be part of this group?
a lot of the people pleasing started at that point because if people were quote-unquote okay with me or happy with me Then I felt like okay, they accept me I can be part of this group. At the same time for me watching my parents work really hard to provide for my sister and I What my little self didn't want to do is be a burden. It was a big thing for me from a very early age If I didn't want to be a problem, I didn't want to be a burden I didn't want them to have to worry about me beyond just you know and it wasn't because they said anything to me that was just part of
I am, it's part of my personality. And so the perfectionism started to take hold as soon as I got into school, because that's kind of where you're going to start seeing it, right? Because you don't want your parents to worry about your classwork or your homework or things like that. And so I was very diligent about getting all of those things done. I didn't, I worked really hard, did not want to make mistakes at school, because again, then they would have to worry, now I'm being a burden. And so all of that carried with me throughout, throughout my teenage years into adulthood.
did not really fully understand where it was affecting me until I became a mom though. So became a mom, I'm a mom by five. My oldest is actually 22. She's a ballerina, a professional ballerina. My youngest is 10 at the time that we're recording this. But at the time when all this was happening, so before I had started my practice, so we're talking about, I would say about nine years-ish ago, middle daughter was entering pre-teen stage and...
Kamini Wood (11:03.417)
I started seeing my kiddos mirroring back to me, a lot of people pleasing perfectionist tendencies and how the anxiety was really rising. From that, then mirroring that, I recognized that they were actually learning those behaviors and the ways of showing up from me. And if I wanted something to be different for them, I needed to take ownership of what was happening for me. It sounds super simple, not it was an evolution, right? It was multiple.
Erin Diehl (11:31.772)
Right.
Kamini Wood (11:32.821)
moments of recognition until finally it was like the almost this wake up call, catalyst moment if you will. And that's when I went through my self-transformation and worked on myself and recognized like, oh wow, that's where I learned five-year-old comedy internalized certain things. You know, six-year-old comedy internalized certain things and took on these perfectionist, people-pleasing tendencies, this need to make sure everyone else was taken care of, forgetting that I had needs, putting them to the back burner, constantly over-functioning.
in all of that, you know, making sure that, again, everything else is taken care of. Recognizing that as I understood that about myself, I could make changes, right? I always say to people, awareness is the doorway to change. So same thing that I experienced for myself. Went through that work. And it is work. It's not something that just is, you split the switch and suddenly it changes, because those are behavior patterns and they're mindset patterns. So went through that. And as I went through that...
recognize that even professionally, every role that I had, I would always come back to helping people figure out what it was that they needed to grow and expand. And that was my wake up call of saying, oh wow, these two things are actually meant to be together and I'm actually meant to create some type of business. At that moment, I didn't know what it was, but some type of business where I get to work with people and helping them figure out what it is that will help move them forward and recognize, after that, recognizing, okay, I can do this through coaching, what type of coaching.
henceforth all of the different trainings and the modalities why again so I can serve people and wherever they are And what information and how they assimilate information and so there you go. That's where I am
Erin Diehl (13:11.718)
First of all, thank you, because that's like a really vulnerable story. And you have to, every time I'm sure, go back and retell it. It conjures up some failings, most likely, but you've worked through them too. And you have done the work, and you're a living, breathing example of what it's like to know, feel in your being and who you are. I have a purpose here, and it took you kind of doing that work.
to find your purpose. And I know it was hard in the beginning, but you also got to this really beautiful place that earned service to others. So kudos to you for doing that work because a lot of people don't, first of all, I love that you said awareness is key because so many people go through life and I have this quote in my room, like sleepwalking, they don't really know that.
Kamini Wood (13:37.817)
Absolutely.
Kamini Wood (13:59.442)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Diehl (14:02.526)
that's their pattern, they don't understand it, they can't see the bird's eye view, they're just so in it. And you were able to do that, and you were able to see the pattern and disrupt the pattern and create a ripple effect of change. And also the fact that you're a mom and just have that awareness and, I'm sure so many people listening can relate because I definitely took like a deep inhale.
when you were talking about being a perfectionist and people pleaser and sing it in your child because I'm like, oh, I don't want him to have my child. I have a four and a half year old, but like he's growing up with two very, you know, type A recovering perfectionist parents and I can already see that as he starts going through school. So.
I wanted that backstory because I know you have so many tools to help people and that's what I want to get to. So thank you for sharing that. It's a beautiful story. Let's talk about the perfectionism signs. Are there any common signs or behaviors since we know awareness is so key that people can be aware of when it comes to perfectionism?
Kamini Wood (15:13.921)
Yeah, so I think it's different for different people, but I think a lot of the common signs that we're gonna see, or one major common sign, would be that judge or the inner critic that pops up, that voice that continually says that it's not good enough or... Um...
Erin Diehl (15:23.49)
Uh huh.
Kamini Wood (15:28.489)
Another common sign is paralysis, not able to move forward. Why? Because with perfectionists, they are so scared of making a mistake or trying something and failing at it that they will just stop. They won't move themselves forward. And I think those are two really, really common things that pop up with perfectionism. You know, a lot of times people will say, I'm a procrastinator. And I usually dive into that one because I think that that's actually perfectionism. That could be not all the time,
definitely has shown to be more of a symptom of the perfectionist underlying because a lot of times with procrastination there's a fear of loss of control or a fear of uncertainty and so because there's that with procrastination there's the emotional aspect and then there's the like actual motivation aspect right and if you're looking at that emotional aspect a lot of times we will find it's related to loss of control or some type of fear of uncertainty and that
Erin Diehl (16:11.895)
Yeah.
Erin Diehl (16:26.242)
Hmm.
Kamini Wood (16:26.969)
can be related to perfectionism as well. So when there is this sort of, I can't seem to move myself forward, or I have a lot of great ideas, but I don't seem to execute any of them, that could actually be perfectionism at play. So, I think that's a great way to start.
Erin Diehl (16:40.334)
Hmm, okay, interesting. Because I also love this connection that you mentioned earlier too about people-pleasing and perfectionism. How did those two, they typically go hand in hand, right? Like they're typically one of the same or no?
Kamini Wood (16:55.421)
I don't know that they're the same, but I do think that a lot of perfectionists will say that they're also a people pleaser or vice versa. Because again, with people pleasing, we're focused on the other person in making sure that whatever is okay, we're avoiding conflict. There's an element of perfectionism in that, right? Like, I don't want anything to be wrong. I don't want it to go awry. I want to control the situation. Control is a big aspect of perfectionism. So even when we're talking about intrinsic perfectionists or extrinsic perfectionists,
Erin Diehl (17:19.938)
Hmm
Erin Diehl (17:23.851)
Yes.
Kamini Wood (17:24.021)
A lot of it boils down to sense of control. I want to either control internally what's happening or I want to control what's happening externally. So like we're dealing, you know, sometimes as parents, we might start to show that extrinsically where we want our children to be perfect, right? That we have the really high expectations of our children. Or if we're a business owner, we have really high expectations of our employees. That could be extrinsic perfectionism. Ultimately, it's a sense of control. Why do we want control? Because we want certainty. Why do we want certainty?
Erin Diehl (17:28.119)
Yes.
Kamini Wood (17:53.935)
safety.
Erin Diehl (17:55.702)
Oh my god, goes back to the inner child. Oh my god, it's so good, Kamini! I'm like, this is, okay, this is like, this is like a live therapy session for all recovering perfectionists and papal placers. I mean, I grew up moving a lot, so I also, anytime.
Kamini Wood (18:08.217)
I'm gonna go.
Erin Diehl (18:17.802)
I mean, I know that's where my perfectionism and people-pleasing comes from because I was just like, like me, like me. I wanna avoid conflict at all costs. I wanna fit in, I wanna belong. Yeah.
Kamini Wood (18:23.317)
Right? Right.
Kamini Wood (18:28.383)
I want to belong. Yes, because if we think about what we need is, if we boil it down, most often it's safety, it's belonging, it's mattering.
Erin Diehl (18:38.61)
And I think all and yes, all of those things at some point in someone's life, they wanted one of those three things. And especially if that happens in childhood, if you're, you know, I think those stick with you much longer, right? I would assume. Or I'll just carry in the wounds of her childhood. Okay. So, oh God. Okay. Let me say here now, I also want to talk about strategies because.
Kamini Wood (18:52.513)
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yes. Ha ha ha.
Erin Diehl (19:07.914)
That I know is what our peeps are improving at peeps. That's the name of our audience, what they listen for. So is there one specific strategy that is your go-to tool when you start to see that perfectionist tendency rise? Do you have one? Could you give it to me? Can I use it right now? Okay.
Kamini Wood (19:21.002)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (19:25.985)
Yes. Yeah, I will give you mine. I call it out, I name it. I name it, I call it out, acknowledge that it's there. Just really give yourself permission to notice, name, acknowledge. Because once we call it out, we then have the power to decide if we're gonna put our energy into it or if we're going to shift into more values-based action.
Erin Diehl (19:32.154)
Okay. Oh!
Erin Diehl (19:52.562)
Oh my god, I love it. Do you have it, like, do you name it like a person or do you just, you just say that's my perfectionism?
Kamini Wood (19:59.549)
I will name even the thought like, oh, there it is. I'm afraid of making a mistake or I'm having the thought that if I make this mistake, the world's gonna end. Call out the exact thing that's happening, right? Because if you name it, it takes, it's like shame. How do we unshame? We actually speak the things that we're shaming ourselves for because it takes its power out of it, the wind out of its sails, so to speak. Same thing with perfectionism. Name it, call it out. What is the thought you're having? Because we're going to have a thousand thoughts.
Erin Diehl (20:08.535)
Hmm.
Erin Diehl (20:22.028)
Yeah.
Kamini Wood (20:28.285)
thousands of thoughts a day, we get to choose which ones we're going to put our energy into. So if you call yourself out for the perfectionist thought or the catastrophic thinking, because that's usually the one that we go to as perfectionists, call it out. We then can say, okay, well, what's actually true or what is the thing that I actually want to put my energy into right now? Because I can choose to do that, and I know what rabbit hole I'm going to go down. But then at least we're making an empowered decision and we can own the fact that we went down the perfectionist rabbit hole.
Erin Diehl (20:29.996)
Yeah.
Erin Diehl (20:46.794)
Yeah. Yes.
Erin Diehl (20:53.938)
I love it and it's awareness. It comes back to awareness. Oh, I love that. Okay. These are all things that make sense to me, to the world. Okay. So then I'm thinking about, so we've called this sort of like.
Kamini Wood (20:56.713)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Diehl (21:10.398)
We've called it out, right? We've told ourselves, okay, now we know where we're going. We've decided, okay, I'm going to choose. If I choose to go down this negative rabbit hole, I know what the outcome is gonna be. I'm gonna be on the internet looking up what type of disease I have, which is, I'm a future tripper. I'm like, oh, my lower back's hurting. I'm like, there's definitely a tumor in it. And then I just go down the rabbit hole. My therapist-
Kamini Wood (21:27.11)
Uh-huh.
Kamini Wood (21:32.953)
And Dr. Google takes over.
Erin Diehl (21:34.89)
Yeah, Dr. Gogol takes over. So I was just gonna call it out. We're future trippin'. We're just call, we're looking at Dr. Gogol and then we're gonna decide whether or not to go down that rabbit hole or change the tune and decide to say I'm healthy in mind, body, spirit, which is my go-to mantra.
Kamini Wood (21:51.573)
Right, you go to your mantra, you go to what's actually true, or you just say, you know what, I have a choice here. I can, what would be the most meaningful thing that I could do for myself right now? Or meaningful for me right now? And maybe it's an action that has nothing to even do with what's going on with the lower back. Maybe it's like, you know what, values based action right now is to go hang out with my child. I'm gonna go spend the next ten minutes with my child and just be present with your child.
Erin Diehl (22:00.578)
Mm-hmm.
Erin Diehl (22:14.618)
Hmm. Okay, can we talk about values-based action? Because I don't, you keep bringing that up. What is values-based action?
Kamini Wood (22:16.909)
Mm-hmm. It is knowing what's meaningful to you and then being able to take an action that relates to one of those things. So I use the kiddo for an example because one of my main values, obviously, right now in my life is motherhood. So for me, a lot of times, if I need to reground in the present moment, I know that I'm spinning out, anxiety might be taking over. It's like I call it out and then a values-based action could be I'm gonna spend the next five or 10 minutes just spending time with one of my kids.
and being present with them. And it regrounds you in the present moment because I, like you, am a future tripper. It's kind of where I go. It's like, what could happen? Let me come up with all of the solutions. And it's, well, I need to be in the present moment because that's where life is happening. How do I get there? Come back to a values-based action, connect to the present moment. Values-based action is something meaningful to me, so it's gonna be different for each one of us.
Erin Diehl (22:55.747)
Thank you.
Erin Diehl (23:01.262)
Totally.
Kamini Wood (23:09.501)
and that connects us back to ourself. Now we're in an empowered place. Now we're connected to ourself. Now we can make a decision of what's next after that.
Erin Diehl (23:18.45)
Okay, so do you have a list of values based action? Like how do you know in that moment I wanna go spend the time with my child? Like tell me that.
Kamini Wood (23:23.381)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
I am totally a believer in cheat sheets. So you start with your values. Figure out what your values are, core values. I always say that's the groundwork that I do with my clients. Number one thing, we got to figure out what your core values are. Then you come up with a cheat sheet of what are some go-to values-based actions? Because when you're in the moment of spinning out, a lot of times it's very difficult to come up with one of those things. So you find, you figure out what's my cheat sheet and I can pick something off of it. A lot of my clients, I say have it on your phone. There's no shame in having a cheat sheet of values-based actions on your phone.
Erin Diehl (23:29.92)
Yeah!
Kamini Wood (23:56.729)
having one of those moments, you pull up your phone, your notes, and you pick one of the things that makes the most sense for you in that moment and go do it.
Erin Diehl (24:03.338)
Oh my God, I love it. This is now the homework, okay? So I'm writing that down, cause that is fantastic. And I wanna do that. I have a bliss list, okay? I call it my bliss list, which is things that bring me joy, but I guess they come, you know, to make the connection to the core values, I think is interesting. So I think I wanna redo this and create, okay, here are my core and can we do this together to give somebody an example of how this works? And I'll be the guinea pig. Can we just do this real quick? Okay.
Kamini Wood (24:10.969)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (24:31.128)
Sure, sure.
Erin Diehl (24:33.162)
So my values are family faith, our family spirituality. I kind of feel like the mindfulness goes hand in hand with that and then like community, I think. And you know, it's on my career, but I don't want a career to go in there because I love my career, but I've centered it around those things. So, okay, so those are my values.
Kamini Wood (24:37.909)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (24:47.265)
Okay, are the top four?
Kamini Wood (24:54.821)
So family, spirituality, community, and mindfulness. Okay, so when you think of family, what are one or two values-based actions that would be related to family? And they don't have to be big, and they don't have to be big.
Erin Diehl (24:58.99)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Erin Diehl (25:09.934)
Spending time. Yeah, okay, so yeah, spending time without my phone. I think that's a big one. Spending time without my phone. Spending intentional time, like creating an experience too, I think is also important. And I also think for family, like for me, I'm really big on like, I want to put my son to bed every night, or not every night, but as many nights as possible.
Kamini Wood (25:15.605)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Kamini Wood (25:25.283)
Okay.
Kamini Wood (25:33.685)
Right, awesome. Okay, so those things would go on the list in terms of faith, spirituality. What are a couple values-based actions?
Erin Diehl (25:37.396)
Okay.
Okay, okay. This is really helpful. Like if somebody is listening, I feel like this is like, boom, you're gonna do this now. So you'll come up with your core, like four to five, and then you make the list, right? Okay, so faith, okay. For me, it's meditation every day. So a morning meditation, an afternoon one, and a gratitude list is really important. So that's important, okay. And then what was, and then what is my next one?
Kamini Wood (25:50.115)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (25:54.119)
Mm-hmm.
Kamini Wood (26:00.041)
Okay. Yep.
Kamini Wood (26:07.615)
you had community.
Erin Diehl (26:10.466)
I think it's just connecting with people in person or if I have to online, which is also great. Like right now, this is a new community. Okay, Kamini, now we're part of, we're a community, we're a community. But no, truly like connecting with like-minded people or people who have different views but understanding them, I think is also like a really cool thing. So connecting with people, and I love this acronym,
Kamini Wood (26:19.892)
We're community!
Kamini Wood (26:30.819)
Yes.
Erin Diehl (26:38.998)
with that in mind helping somebody in some way serving. Okay. So this.
Kamini Wood (26:40.725)
Yes, yes, yep, yep. So another small values-based action could simply be pick up the phone and call somebody, right? Pick up the phone and connect. And so then the last one you had was mindfulness. So what's one or two that you can come up with that one?
Erin Diehl (26:50.452)
Uhhhhhh
Erin Diehl (26:56.542)
Yeah, I would say, I want to use what you taught me today. I want to change, I want to acknowledge those perfectionist thoughts and then I want to either choose to go down the rabbit hole or change it to a more kind loving thought instead.
Kamini Wood (27:11.989)
Mm-hmm. So now you got your list, right? Boom. You got it. And you can even expand on that. It's like, OK, like I just did with the connection. Like-minded people, what does that mean? Maybe it's picking up the phone. Maybe it's texting somebody. You come up with even smaller bite size. Because sometimes we really can't. We're so spun out, we just need something super small. So you have a range of things that you can do. And then in the moment, you're re-grounding, you pick one of those values-based actions.
Erin Diehl (27:15.903)
Yes.
Erin Diehl (27:31.991)
Yes.
Erin Diehl (27:40.042)
Okay, everybody better hire you as their coach immediately. That was life changing, okay? Immediately. We're gonna put our show, like links to all the things in the show notes, but that was so good. And it's so nice, cause then you don't have to fumble. You're like, oh, let me go to my list, pick one core value to do right now in this moment to recenter, reground, realign. And there you are. Oh my God, I love it. That is so beautiful.
Kamini Wood (28:01.709)
realign. Yes.
Erin Diehl (28:08.914)
I literally don't think on this show we've ever taken perfectionism and like boiled it down to this level. So this is beautiful. I really love that. And I think anyone listening, you have to do that cheat sheet. Like that is just incredible. Okay. Now, wait, where are you going to say?
Kamini Wood (28:25.997)
Side note, side note, the reason why the cheat sheet works with perfectionists is because as perfectionists we'll get caught up in the, well now I don't know how to do it the right way.
Erin Diehl (28:35.498)
Yes, that is so true. And I'm just not gonna do anything. Yes, do you think all perfect, do you think we all have lists? Like do you think all perfectionists just have lists on lists?
Kamini Wood (28:38.337)
Which is why cheat sheets come in handy. Right, which is why cheat sheets come in handy, because they're already done.
Kamini Wood (28:46.813)
No, I don't. I actually think that we need more lists because what happens is we get stuck in the, I don't know the right way to do this and I don't wanna mess it up. And so if we actually give ourselves permission to have more cheat sheets and more lists, we don't have to do a thinking in the moment.
Erin Diehl (28:56.567)
Yeah.
Erin Diehl (29:02.71)
Oh, it's so good. Like that is so good. Okay, so is there, okay, this is just a purely curious question as I was planning for today and this is something I did plan to ask you. Is there, so this is actually really good. This might answer my own question, but I'm thinking about perfectionism, I'm thinking about exposure therapy, and I'm thinking about just that line of thinking.
Is there any type of exposure therapy that you've ever done with a perfection? She's laughing. Yes. Okay. Tell us. Okay, comedy, we need to know where do we got to go? What do we got to do? Do we have to do a cold plunge? Do we have to walk a plank? What are we doing?
Kamini Wood (29:32.128)
Yes!
Kamini Wood (29:42.41)
I actually have challenged clients to go ahead and like make a mistake on purpose. Like go ahead and do the thing. Because that's the thing that we're so afraid of. And if we can just get into naming the fear and actually naming calling out what it is that we're scared of, most of the time we recognize that there's catastrophic thinking. So the exposure therapy part is go ahead and make a little tiny mistake and then step back into observer mode and notice nothing.
shattered. The world is still spinning. You are still safe, right? And you don't have to make it a huge mistake. Like I'm not saying like go mess up your taxes or something, but little tiny mistakes. It's okay. Everything is okay. I'm okay. I am safe, right? Then you can start building the muscle around, hey, mistakes are gonna happen and it's okay.
Erin Diehl (30:11.892)
Yeah.
Erin Diehl (30:15.306)
Yes.
Erin Diehl (30:20.661)
Yeah.
Erin Diehl (30:30.21)
Yes. Oh, I love that. Okay. All right, so what mistake are we making today, everyone? I know many of us are listening in, taking notes. I've already made five. So I think I hit my quota. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. As we were getting on this call, I hit my quota. Okay, so I'm good. I'm real good. Okay, now I want to, we've given so many tangibles. We've got our cheat sheet. We've got our exposure therapy.
Kamini Wood (30:36.203)
I'm going to go to bed.
Kamini Wood (30:41.625)
I was gonna say, mine's checked off. Right, like I clicked the wrong link.
Erin Diehl (30:59.37)
Is there anything we didn't cover for the recovering perfectionists listening who, if they want to start today recovering from perfectionism, is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to make sure we tell them?
Kamini Wood (31:13.293)
Yes, self-compassion. Really leaning into kindness over judgment, right? And giving yourself grace as you go through the process. So, perfectionists are so, we are so hard on ourselves and we immediately go into that judge mindset. And so it's really learning the concepts of kindness over judgment, recognizing that other people have had similar experiences, you're not alone, right? So that, because when we go into isolation, that's where shaming will start to take hold. And so just really giving yourself some grace.
Erin Diehl (31:15.609)
Mmm.
Erin Diehl (31:26.957)
Yeah.
Kamini Wood (31:41.837)
you know, recognizing that as you work through this, it's not easy, right? Because these are patterns that have been there for a while. Being graceful with yourself, being kind to yourself, giving yourself permission to fumble, to maybe start and stop. That's really important as you go through the process of shifting.
Erin Diehl (32:02.018)
So good. Kindness over judgment. And this just brings me full circle to what we talked about in the beginning with the amnesia of being born with amnesia. We know here, let me use words. We know who we're here to be, but we forget and it's the purpose of life to remember. And so that kindness is so imperative because we're actually supposed to make those mistakes in order to learn the lessons, right?
Kamini Wood (32:30.677)
Mm-hmm. Exactly. We're growing through them, right? Our mistakes are not defining us. Our mistakes are just giving us permission to grow and evolve.
Erin Diehl (32:40.126)
Oh my God, we have unmasked so many things here today. Full circle, full circle. This is so good. All right. So this is the final question I ask every guest. Improve It is the name of the show. It's the name of our company. We always say that it is that thing that you were born here to do. Kamini, you came into the world. You had a purpose and it is your job to remember what it is. What is that it?
Kamini Wood (33:08.961)
For me, it is about serving others in a way that allows them to see their own magnificence.
Erin Diehl (33:20.35)
so freaking much and you can feel that it's because you that's why you learned all the modalities and got all the certifications because you want to serve everybody to their individual selves which is so awesome so okay where can the improvement peeps find you how can they hire you as their coach tell us all the things
Kamini Wood (33:41.249)
Well, they can find me on the web, comedywood.com, and then I'm on Facebook and Instagram with the handle, it'sauthenticme. And then of course on LinkedIn, just by my name.
Erin Diehl (33:52.002)
So awesome, just by my name, but just an awesome, awesome human to find, to connect with, to know. I'm so glad we had you on the show. I feel like this just was such a great, tangible, full circle moment. So thank you for all of the wisdom. Yeah, no thank you.
Kamini Wood (34:05.369)
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's an amazing conversation.
Erin Diehl (34:10.561)
Alright, we'll have you back at some point. Thank you, comedy!